Electric Cars - the discussion continues.

[facthunter]

Yes . I've ridden in a vehicle with seat heaters. Might be good in Canada, but I preferred them off. Electric vehicles will come They are ideal for stop start short trips etc There's nothing sillier than driving a couple of Kms to the station and leaving your car there all day in the sun and doing the same in the evening. That will wreck an internal combustion engine fast.. The price for a basic electric one will fall . and if you power it from solar, it will run out very cheap.. Maintenance should be minimal. Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

Solar-electric,

 

Solar boat was tried on the Sydney harbour, & ended using its diesel generator every (almost) day.

 

Something amiss on that one, and I haven't a clue.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Marty_d]

Bit of a difference between a big-ass ferry with 100 people on board pushing through water, and a car with 2 or 3 on board pushing through air.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Solar-electric,Solar boat was tried on the Sydney harbour, & ended using its diesel generator every (almost) day.

 

Something amiss on that one, and I haven't a clue.

 

spacesailor

That boat was built as a demonstration of the technology available at the time; we've come a long way since then.

 

 

[facthunter]

Solar is Probably the one area that has advanced more than any other.( Price and efficiency) A Van should easily be able to be made into a hybrid. You motorise the rear wheels on a FWD and use the long tailshaft on a RWD. Nev

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

@octave - I thought you lived near Ararat for some reason. Ne'er mind... Geelong is almost as good ;-)

 

Had the better half test drive a new Nissan Leaf the other day - she was very skeptical about electric cars, preferring hybrids on those long drives she never goes on.. She is no petrol-head by any stretch of the imagination. However, after the test drive (with a smarmy salesman who was doing everything to dissuade us from doing business with them), she had changed her mind quick-smart. In fact, we are probably going to get one (What Car's EV of the year, I think) once we have most of the work on our new money pit sorted. She was amazed at how quick they accelerate, but that is by no means what swung her. The range is more than adequate for her requirements - the total lack of gears(she only drives automatics), the simplicty of operation and the ease/convenience of her never having to drive to a petrol station again won it.

 

Interestingly, I saw on BBC Points South West (regional news for where I live) that not one local government authority in the south west of England were utilising grants to install EV charging stations (presumably the real reason is the maintenance due to potential vandalism)... Not just the south west

 

On the heating system - that is me done. I have worked in North Dakota in their worst winter in 20-odd years (back in 1997), and I will still not warm to the idea of heated seats (pun almost intended).

 

 

[spacesailor]

J A

 

The newish (2008) Pajero's have heated seats, My Daughter loves driving the Paj on those cold Sydney mornings

 

Beginning to suspect , that could be why, so much maintenance on her Subaroo. LoL

 

spacesailor

 

 

[red750]

Deviating momentarily from electric cars to vintage cars, the Vintage Driver's Club brought a few of their vehicles to the Men's Shed today. I have added a few photos to the Media section.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Backto electric cars. Here's an interesting article on range.. May have to move away from the leaf...

 

New test reveals how far electric cars can REALLY travel on a full charge | This is Money

 

 

[spacesailor]

Stay with it !,

 

The price of fossil fuel is going "up up & away" so your leaf will blow us oldies to away too.

 

I have tried the older battery leaf blower's & have Not had good results, same with the lawn mower.

 

I gave the E-mower to my grand-daughter & she didn't like it either, swapped it for a petrol mower.LoL

 

I don't commute, so my motoring is Pleasure all the way, fuel pump to next fuel pump, just the fuel-price changes.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[red750]

My regular trips are around 10km return, with one monthly trip of 60km return, so range is not a concern. Once or twice a year we may travel to the country, a round trip of about 260km,and there is a recharge station at the destination. Alternatively we could hire an ICE car.

 

Here is a map of recharge stations in Australia. The orange ones are high power fast charge centres.

 

[ATTACH]49647._xfImport[/ATTACH]

 

Three shopping malls, five other smaller shopping strips, doctor, 3 private hospitals, railway stations, three cinema complexes, and the Men's Shed, all in a five kilometre radius of home.

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

The UK also has a dense set of recharge points of varying types; but even fast charging takes a min of 20 minutes for most EVs... which means if I buy a car with a claimed range of say 200m, but it only really gives me 120m, then I have to tack on a bit of time to go for my 150m trip.

 

Agreed, for the urban school and shopping run, which is most people's driving, it is no game changer... except for that time when you one runs a low charge as they forgot to hook up the power overnight..

 

 

[octave]

The UK also has a dense set of recharge points of varying types; but even fast charging takes a min of 20 minutes for most EVs... which means if I buy a car with a claimed range of say 200m, but it only really gives me 120m, then I have to tack on a bit of time to go for my 150m trip.

Agreed, for the urban school and shopping run, which is most people's driving, it is no game changer... except for that time when you one runs a low charge as they forgot to hook up the power overnight..

 

News flash---

 

My petrol head son just bought a BMW I3 REx (it has a 2 cylinder motor range extender.) Like this one

 

 

[spacesailor]

My nephew got a new ride to,

 

[ATTACH]49648._xfImport[/ATTACH]

 

Doesn't own it of course, just adds Miles & hours for the boss.

 

[spacesailor]

"Here is a map of recharge stations in Australia. The orange ones are high power fast charge centres."

 

Just what I thought, Not one on the Buchanan hwy W A, or the Plenty hwy NT. LoL

 

Picked up a good few Ruby's at Gem Tree, NT, & the old Delica had it's step shaken loose In W A.

 

But enjoyed both roads, & didn't whinge about fuel prices either.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

News flash---

My petrol head son just bought a BMW I3 REx (it has a 2 cylinder motor range extender.) Like this one

I took a look at them - but as I want to spend more on flying and less on driving, they sort of exceed the price spec for me... Cheapest on one of the better new car discount sites is £34k.. A leaf is £24k and with its electric engine, pretty zippy, if boring to look at.

 

 

[facthunter]

People run out of fossil fuel too. Electric will come, especially for the short trips with a solar panel on the car to use the hot sun in the car park. Electric charged from a coal based Grid only shifts the pollution to where the power station is.. Cost of the grid will always be prohibitive in a big sparsely settled country like Australia, and supply be unreliable. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Another advantage of shifting to an EV is the opportunity to integrate it's battery into your home's power system.

 

The car is usually sitting idle during the night when you domestic power use peaks.

 

 

[facthunter]

I'm not aware of the general usage patterns but I thought the cheapest power was the excess after 2200 where you programme your dishwasher and clothes washers to run.. Coal is not a flexible provider especially the super critical ones. that only run efficiently over a small range . The big demand is late afternoon on hot days in summer..The "System" needs flexibility. Excess power has to go somewhere if it's being produced so storage of some kind will be essential.. Excess power will almost be paid to get rid of so investment in storage will be a profitable exercise. Nev

 

 

[kgwilson]

The cheapest power, Off Peak is between 2200 & 0700 Monday to Friday and all day Saturday & Sunday. If you have solar panels you run the dishwasher & washing machine during sunlight hours as well as anything else you can to take advantage of free electricity.

 

 

[facthunter]

True, but there are factors like what power your rooftop array is delivering, and what the off peak rate is. As a % it appears to be getting closer to the "Full" rate so the discount is not enough to make it a major consideration IF your own panels are more than the 3 some have. IF you are trying to heat water in an old "element" water heater your rooftop array won't go close to doing it unless you have about 20 and have a sunny day. The heat pump set-up is a different matter for water heating and is now cheaper than gas and a bit of a game changer I've found in the hot water department, whether off peak or not. Nev

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Nev - take your point about people running out of fossil fuel as well.. However, my point was more that when I need to stop to fill the tank with petrol, the pumping bit takes - max - 5 minutes to "fill 'er up"... If I get a fast charging station, I need to wait at least 20 mins to get to 80% full... And I am reading it is often a bit more time.

 

Let's say, my diesel car claimed to get 180 miles to a tank (enough to get me from Somerset to London), but it only really got 120 miles to the tank (not quite enough). OK, I would have to pull over. Even with a comfort break, selecting a well-earned treat on account of the inconvenience and paying the bill, I would have stopped for a max of 10 minutes.. taking my 2hr 30 minute trip to 2 hrs 40 mins.. No big deal.

 

Now, I decide, hey that Nissan Leaf, with its 180 mile claimed range is perfect - will get me to my London base with between 20 and 40 miles to spare. Bear in mind, my driving habits would see it getting close to its max range, so I will allow, say a 40 mile difference and go the shorter way. But, to my horror, when I take delivery of the Nissan, it only really gets me 120 miles. OK.. So did my old diesel (in this hypo example). And there are plenty of stops on the way. But, now I have to stop for on average 30 minutes - albeit, while the car is charging, I can get my well-deserved treat, relieve myself and may was well buy a magazine for the wait. So, my 2.5 hour trip now, on average, 3 hours... And that is only to get the "tank" 80% full, which gives me even less range, next time around.. .in the case of the leaf, around 95 miles based on effective range.

 

Let's take that example further.. I want to drive from Syd-a-ney (remembering the call for the Olympic games) to Brisbane - some 900km or 560 miles.. I get 120 miles for the first fuel stop, and lets round it out to 100 miles for each stop afterwards (we aren't stopping for an overnighter on this trip). That is 5 stops (well, really 6, but I am allowing 40k short to be within the environs of Brissie). Adds a minimum of 2.5 hours to my drive for electric to less than an hour for fossil.

 

Having said that, our next car is going to be EV to replace the runabout, but I am keeping the diesel for the longer runs..

 

I think the future model of ownership is changing (well, in Europe, anyway); where individual ownership will be the minority and all of the above will probably no longer be applicable.

 

 

[spacesailor]

"People run out of fossil fuel too"

 

Most 4x4s have Longrange tanks. if not, like me will carry the extra fuel in cans, just to be certain of making that distance.

 

When driving from the Alice to Birdsville, I arrived with 1/2 a tank of fuel. But the pint in the pub went down too quickly & had to be topped-up a couple of times,LoL.

 

I see the reloes have started "car pooling" amongst themselves.mainly because of Rego & CTP.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[red750]

All this discussion of range etc. brings me to relate this little anecdote.

 

This weekend we travelled from home (Vermont) to Daylesford for a reunion of my wife's family. When we pulled out of our drive, the Distance to Empty gauge showed 155km. When we got onto the Eastern Freeway, the DTE started to increase, and continued to do so until we reached the outskirts of Bacchus Marsh, where it topped out at 226km. Once I started climbing the hills west of Bacchus Marsh, the gauge started dropping fairly rapidly. When we pulled into the motel in Daylesford, the DTE read 153. Taking DTE readings only, Daylesford is 2 km from Vermont. Just shows how much more efficient and economical an old Falcon is at highway speed.

 

 

[kgwilson]

The current technology electric vehicles are great for short runs with plenty of time in between for recharging. Long distance means a long time when charging stops are included so they are not really practical for this sort of travel.

 

I know that Teslas use umpteen small cells and are part of the floor pan but I am wondering if with some collaboration amongst manufacturers coupled with improvements in battery technology that there could be slide in/slide out battery packs so when you need to recharge you just call in to the battery swap station, slide the flat one out & slide a fully charged one in & go. Say a 2-5 minute stop. If that was possible it would be a game changer.