'Brexit' negotiations - Info for those who may be interested.

[Phil Perry]

This report is posted verbatim.

 

 

Christopher Chope MP

 

Earlier this week, I and a group of cross-party colleagues from the Exiting the European Select Committee visited Brussels for a series of meetings. We met Michel Barnier, the EU’s Chief Brexit Negotiator; Guy Verhofstadt MEP, Chair of the European Parliament’s Brexit Steering Group; and several other senior MEPs. Having heard what they had to say, I’m afraid I’ve come to the conclusion that the only Brexit deal being offered to us from Brussels would be far worse for the UK than leaving without a deal in March 2019. Indeed, the only withdrawal deal on offer from the EU would require the UK to agree to the EU’s demands without any guarantee of being able to secure a reasonable future trade deal on terms better than the WTO. The EU wants to require the UK to agree to its financial demands, to accept that every EU citizen resident in the UK has the right to live in the UK forever and for that right to be extended to parents and children. The EU would also make remaining in the Single Market and Customs Union a pre-requisite to having a frictionless border between Ireland and Northern Ireland. To add insult to injury, the EU’s negotiators are insisting that any future trade relationship should be made conditional upon a whole raft of protectionist and anti-competitive requirements which would severely handicap the UK’s freedom to negotiate genuine free trade deals with the rest of the world. Furthermore, it was confirmed that no free trade deal can be agreed in parallel with the Article 50 withdrawal agreement because each of the 27 EU countries would have a veto on that deal – and would exercise it if they would otherwise face competition from the UK on tax, employment conditions, safety regulations and relaxation of restrictions on GM crops. It also became clear to me during our visit that the EU would require that any transitional deal would have to be signed as part of a withdrawal agreement before any agreement was in place on the UK’s future relationship with the EU: during the transitional period, the status quo would prevail with the Single Market, Customs Union and European Court of Justice etc. having the same roles as at present; the UK would have no ability to control EU immigration during that period and would not even have the right to enter into trade deals with other countries. While the EU negotiators sought to emphasise that they did not want to punish the UK, I find their negotiating stance to be inconsistent with such an assurance.

 

 

[old man emu]

Britain could take a leaf from Hilter's book, and tear up the EU agreements like he did with the Munich Agreement. What can the EU do? There's more trade opportunities with Non-EU economies than with the EU economies.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Britain could take a leaf from Hilter's book, and tear up the EU agreements like he did with the Munich Agreement. What can the EU do? There's more trade opportunities with Non-EU economies than with the EU economies.

All very odd. . . .Media scuttlebut saying that Theresa May has offered the EU £53 Billion. . .( ? ) I wonder what for ?. As there is absolutely NO legal basis for paying anything like that amount ( They wanted £100 Billion initially ) Juncker and Barnier are insisting that this money must be agreed to officially BEFORE any talks on ongoing trade can be entered into. Completely Insane ?. . .sounds like it to me but then what do I know.. . .

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

We could do what Trump is doing, too ;-)

 

I have to admit - the whole Brexit thing is getting tiresome and the average punter on the street - Brexiteer or Remainer - just wants out and couldn't care if it were on WTO terms or not. Someone did point out the flaw with the argument is that services (largely financial services for the UK) are not covered by the WTO so in effect a WTO deal may be diabolical on the economy. Well, I don't buy that either, because it would mean that the EU would have to have a set of rules for British banks and another set of rules for other non-Euro banks (imagine the cries of the far right that a Middle Eastern or Asian bank was getting better treatment than a British bank).

 

A Brexit is going to cause some pain - we know that. The people who voted for Brexit voted to leave under any condition, even if they knew it was going to cost them. Although the media and the "above average" person claim that no-one knew what terms they were voting for and people didn't have the full facts, they are overlooking the plain facts that most of the people didn't care (and, as far as I have heard, they worked out the £300m/week wasn't going to the NHS - well according to those who phone into various radio stations, anyway). All commentators seem to think the average Brit is a simpleton and couldn't comprehend that no party was running a campaign nor did any one party promise anything - even Boris' famous quote was not a promise - I believe he used the word "could", not "will".

 

The debate about the pros and cons and the subsequent negotiations have been subject to persona and commercial vested interests and agendas. O'Leary's comment on planes will stop flying the day on leaving Brexit, for example, was complete tosh (as he has subsequently clarified). Brexit can be likened to a vaccine - the initial jab is going to hurt - maybe for a while - but the long term benefits can far outweigh it.. And, they may, like some vaccinations - cause a fatal reaction - who knows which way Brexit will go.

 

I don't believe a word of what either camp says, to be honest. I know some multi-national supply chains will be disrupted and British subcontract firms will be cut - as weill be fewer European firms. But remember, despite calls from the academia, politbureau and others, the average groundswell about joining the Euro prevented it - and that seemed a pretty good decision. Time will tell if this one is or isn't but, FFS, just get on with it.

 

BTW - the EU demanding such large sums to keep their long terms initiatives going is a joke - if a sports club has a major sponsor pull the plug and there is no one to replace them - they have to change their long-term plans. The EU now has to do the same.

 

 

[old man emu]

If the EU is worried about Britain pulling the money prop from under the EU economy clothesline, the EU could always make a buying run at Argos for these: Buy Better Home Outdoor Extending Line Prop at Argos.co.uk - Your Online Shop for Laundry accessories, Laundry and cleaning, Home and garden.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

We could do what Trump is doing, too ;-)

I have to admit - the whole Brexit thing is getting tiresome and the average punter on the street - Brexiteer or Remainer - just wants out and couldn't care if it were on WTO terms or not. Someone did point out the flaw with the argument is that services (largely financial services for the UK) are not covered by the WTO so in effect a WTO deal may be diabolical on the economy. Well, I don't buy that either, because it would mean that the EU would have to have a set of rules for British banks and another set of rules for other non-Euro banks (imagine the cries of the far right that a Middle Eastern or Asian bank was getting better treatment than a British bank).

 

A Brexit is going to cause some pain - we know that. The people who voted for Brexit voted to leave under any condition, even if they knew it was going to cost them. Although the media and the "above average" person claim that no-one knew what terms they were voting for and people didn't have the full facts, they are overlooking the plain facts that most of the people didn't care (and, as far as I have heard, they worked out the £300m/week wasn't going to the NHS - well according to those who phone into various radio stations, anyway). All commentators seem to think the average Brit is a simpleton and couldn't comprehend that no party was running a campaign nor did any one party promise anything - even Boris' famous quote was not a promise - I believe he used the word "could", not "will".

 

The debate about the pros and cons and the subsequent negotiations have been subject to persona and commercial vested interests and agendas. O'Leary's comment on planes will stop flying the day on leaving Brexit, for example, was complete tosh (as he has subsequently clarified). Brexit can be likened to a vaccine - the initial jab is going to hurt - maybe for a while - but the long term benefits can far outweigh it.. And, they may, like some vaccinations - cause a fatal reaction - who knows which way Brexit will go.

 

I don't believe a word of what either camp says, to be honest. I know some multi-national supply chains will be disrupted and British subcontract firms will be cut - as weill be fewer European firms. But remember, despite calls from the academia, politbureau and others, the average groundswell about joining the Euro prevented it - and that seemed a pretty good decision. Time will tell if this one is or isn't but, FFS, just get on with it.

 

BTW - the EU demanding such large sums to keep their long terms initiatives going is a joke - if a sports club has a major sponsor pull the plug and there is no one to replace them - they have to change their long-term plans. The EU now has to do the same.

On the subject of 'Scare Stories' about banks upping sticks and moving out of London, comes this piece from From Capital & Conflict....

 

* * * *

 

Luckily for us, the EU’s nincompoopery continues to compete with our own.

 

The world’s largest banks have given away that their threat to move jobs to Europe is hollow. Europe isn’t London. Europeans aren’t Londoners. Ergo, there is no way to simply pop up in a European city and get to work. The market is still in London, even if new markets are set up in Europe.

 

Acknowledging this, the new bank plan is to minimise the creation of jobs in Europe wherever possible and to link them to London however possible. The technical definition of where the bank is based can be moved to Europe without the change being meaningful in terms of jobs and work done.

 

The EU will be humiliated in two ways. First, London will continue to dominate as Europe’s financial centre.

 

Second is the tax implication. In the technology arena, the EU is seeking to tax commercial activity where it happens instead of where the company conducting the activity is based. Applied to banking, this’ll mean London gets the tax revenue while the EU is left with shell companies opened primarily to comply with EU rules.

 

The European Banking Authority has declared all this will not be allowed. Unfortunately, it will have to put a stop to the concept of outsourcing and international transactions altogether if it wants to stop it. Which isn’t helpful for founding financial centres.

 

The banks are going so far to keep their operations in London that they’re looking into something called “back-to-back trades”. The idea is that all transactions are mimicked in London in such a way that the European trade is merely symbolic.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

The misinformation around Brexit is phenomenal- however, so is internal misguidance by some mgt seeking to carve out an artificial career for themselves

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

And now vested interest of pollies get to vote on the Brexit deal - ugh!

 

 

[Phil Perry]

And now vested interest of pollies get to vote on the Brexit deal - ugh!

An absolute Masterstroke by chief negotiator David Davis MP. . .! In My view, he would make a much better PM than Mrs May ( A bowl of jelly could do the job better than our Theresa, it has been cruelly said )

 

The Parliamentary vote is purely on any 'DEAL' which is agreed, . . . . Not whether we are Leaving or not. If they vote down the 'Deal', then it's 'Out' and WTO rules.

 

He is, in effect, offering a certain group of Parliamentarians the opportunity of shooting themselves neatly in the collective foot.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

My very good friend Charlotte,. . . . a Long service Manager in the City of London Financial services sector. . . Replies to Mr. Barnier, the Chief EU Negotiator. . . . .

 

Tiredofeulies • 5 hours ago 'Dave Davis' is the UK Chief Brexit negotiator. . . .

 

Mr Dave Davis is at the golf club returning his locker key when Mr Barnier, the membership secretary sees him.

 

"Hello Mr Davis", says Mr Barnier. "I'm sorry to hear you are no longer renewing your club membership,if you would like to come to my office we can settle your account".

 

"I have settled my bar bill" says Mr Davis.

 

"Ah yes Mr Davis", says Mr Barnier, "but there are other matters that need settlement"

 

In Mr Barniers office -

 

Mr Davis explains that he has settled his bar bill so wonders what else he can possibly owe the Golf Club?

 

"Well Mr Davis" begins Mr Barnier, "you did agree to buy one of our Club Jackets".

 

"Yes" agrees Mr Davis "I did agree to buy a jacket but I haven't received it yet". "As soon as you supply the jacket I will send you a cheque for the full amount".

 

"That will not be possible" explains Mr Barnier. "As you are no longer a club member you will not be entitled to buy one of our jackets"!

 

"But you still want me to pay for it" exclaims Mr Davis.

 

"Yes" says Mr Barnier, "That will be £500 for the jacket. "There is also your bar bill".

 

"But I've already settled my bar bill" says Mr Davis. "Yes" says Mr Barnier, "but as you can appreciate, we need to place our orders from the Brewery in advance to ensure our bar is properly stocked".. "You regularly used to spend at least £50 a week in the bar so we have placed orders with the brewery accordingly for the coming year". "You therefore owe us £2600 for the year".

 

"Will you still allow me to have these drinks?" asks Mr Davis. "No of course not Mr Davis". "You are no longer a club member!" says Mr Barnier. "Next is your restaurant bill" continues Mr Barnier. "In the same manner we have to make arrangements in advance with our catering suppliers". "Your average restaurant bill was in the order of £300 a month, so we'll require payment of £3600 for the next year"

 

I don't suppose you'll be letting me have these meals either" asks Mr Davis.

 

No, of course not" says an irritated Mr Barnier, "you are no longer a club member!"

 

"Then of course" Mr Barnier continues, "there are repairs to the clubhouse roof".

 

"Clubhouse roof" exclaims Mr Davis, "What's that got to do with me?"

 

"Well it still needs to be repaired and the builders are coming in next week", your share of the bill is £2000".

 

"I see" says Mr Davis, "anything else?".

 

"Now you mention it" says Mr Barnier, "there is Fred the Barman's pension". "We would like you to pay £5 a week towards Fred's pension when he retires next month". "He's not well you know so I doubt we'll need to ask you for payment for longer than about five years, so £1300 should do it".

 

"This brings your total bill to £10,000" says Mr Barnier.

 

"Let me get this straight" says Mr Davis, "you want me to pay £500 for a jacket you won't let me have, £2600 for beverages you won't let me drink and £3600 for food you won't let me eat, all under a roof I won't be allowed under and not served by a bloke who's going to retire next month!"

 

"Yes, it's all perfectly clear and quite reasonable" says Mr Barnier.

 

"Pi$$ off!" says Mr Davis.

 

( Now we understand what Brexit is all about . . .)

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Putin must be gloating.

 

Signs of Russian Meddling in Brexit Referendum

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Signs of Russian Meddling in Brexit Referendum

 

 

ABSOLUTE AND UTTER BOLLOX.

 

 

It just goes to show how far the EU have penetrated the British CIvil Service that Prime Minster Theresa May would publicly state such a thing.. . .even her SPADS ( Civil Service Special Advisors ) are in on the bullcrap.

 

 

 

Everyone I know ad have spoken to voted LEAVE for three MAIN reasons.. . .there Are OTHERS. . .

 

 

 

1) The EU has filled us up with unwanted and useless immigrants since 1997 who are a total drain on the public Welfare purse, overloading our ability to service their medical requirements via our FREE National Health Service and housing service, most of whom do not work nor contribute to the UK taxation system and refuse point blank to integrate in any way shape nor form to our traditional culture, Instead, serve US with notice of THEIR requirements upon us to service their arrogant 7th century cultural requirements. . .

 

 

 

2) The British people wanted our Fishing grounds returned to OUR control, and not having all the fish hoovered up by Huge 'Factory' foreign boats, who offloaded their catches in Holland, and then we had to buy it back from them, even though their boats were registered as 'British'. . .

 

 

 

3) Most people in the UK are fed up with utterly stupid EU regulations which make ridiculous demands on our industries, which our counterparts on the European continent just ignore and have no problem with that. ( In particular, the French )

 

 

 

We merely wanted our National Sovereignty back. . . .The vote to join the EEC in 1975 was Positive, but the Government LIED TO US. . .THEY KNEW WHAT WAS COMING. . . that is not what it was intended to be. . it was ALWAYS about POLITICAL UNION, run by an Unelectable Elite . .. which is precisely what it has become.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Phil it sounds like you're not entirely happy to be in the EC.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Phil it sounds like you're not entirely happy to be in the EC.

Standing back for a moment and thinking about that OK,. . . I believe that you could be on to something there mate. . . . . .mmmm. . .

 

 

[Phil Perry]

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[Phil Perry]

This is the kind of 'PATRIOT' we are up against. A 'CONSERVATIVE' Minister for many many years, who doen't like the idea of the UK being the Sovereign independent country it once was . . . .

 

[ATTACH]49067._xfImport[/ATTACH]

 

Mind you,. . .I really DO like his Trad Jazz programme on the radio. . . . I'll quite probably think about this whilst I am organizing the firing squad for him and a few other traitors. . . .

 

To put this into perspective, think how YOU would feel as an Australian citizen,. . .if a long serving member of your Federal Government ( 30+ years) stated that, he wished that one day. . .that the Parliament building in Canberra was merely a council chamber under the jurisdiction of Indonesia. . .or New Zealand. . . .It makes about as much bloody sense.

 

And I, and others of my ilk, are labelled 'racists', 'Looneys' and 'Little Englanders' for not wishing to be subsumed into a supranational, completely unelected and Non-removable body, run by crooks and financed by globalists. . . who don't even follow their own rules. . . .

 

[octave]

[ATTACH=full]2750[/ATTACH]

For the full quote and context, this relates to the situation in Greece in 2105

 

'Elections change nothing'

 

The head of the group which manages the eurozone, Jeroen Dijsselbloem, has warned "taking unilateral steps or ignoring previous arrangements is not the way forward".

 

Alexis Tsipras believes the existing deal is a disaster and says he has a democratic mandate to demand changes. And this exposes democracy's limits within the European Union. The German finance minister Wolfgang Schaeuble says: "Elections change nothing. There are rules".

 

The president of the European Commission Jean-Claude Juncker said "there can be no democratic choice against the European treaties. One cannot exit the euro without leaving the EU".

 

Greece: The dangerous game

 

Sorry to be pedantic but the implication I drew from your meme was that this was said in relation to Brexit. Also, the last sentence which was omitted is important to fully understand what is being said.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

For the full quote and context, this relates to the situation in Greece in 2105

'Elections change nothing'

 

The head of the group which manages the eurozone, Jeroen Dijsselbloem, has warned "taking unilateral steps or ignoring previous arrangements is not the way forward".

 

Alexis Tsipras believes the existing deal is a disaster and says he has a democratic mandate to demand changes. And this exposes democracy's limits within the European Union. The German finance minister Wolfgang Schaeuble says: "Elections change nothing. There are rules".

 

The president of the European Commission Jean-Claude Juncker said "there can be no democratic choice against the European treaties. One cannot exit the euro without leaving the EU".

 

Greece: The dangerous game

 

Sorry to be pedantic but the implication I drew from your meme was that this was said in relation to Brexit. Also, the last sentence which was omitted is important to fully understand what is being said.

 

Sorry OT,. . .I dunno what your point is here,. . .and I've read that report twice before, as I do with all output from the EU. As most of it is in double Dutch and hides things in open view.

 

Not trying to be awkward here.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

AH. . .on second reading of your comment,. . I see what you are getting at. Juncker's comment may not have had anything to do with brexit,. . .but I used it to illustrate the sort of reaction that the EU commission have to anything that they do not like.My comment was not intended to be #FakeNews Siir.. . . .forgive me if you thought it was. THIS is thea attitude of the EU Commission to everything.

 

We are currently lobbying Theresa May to NOT PAY A DIVORCE BILL OF ANY KIND. it has been universally and legally stated that we, ( The UK ) owe the EU nothing, in fact,. . they will owe US for investments in EU infrastructure for which we have paid millions. . . I hope that Mrs Jelly will not be panicked into paying the Barstards a penny. Apart from scientific and other co-operational things which are of mutual benefit to all of Europe. CERN etc. . . .

 

 

[Phil Perry]

'Cultural Enrichment created by Migrants from Pakistan and other Middle Eastern crapholes'

 

This from One of my Daughters, who works for that authority in admin. . . . Bloody Sickening.

 

Evil gang members 'using Tasers on schoolgirl rape victims'

 

 

[old man emu]

 

That's so Germanic. Might one say, dictatorial? Juncker seems to be a man who has learned from his country's history. 75 years ago, Adolf didn't give Russia a democratic choice about the ending of the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact. Juncker seems to be putting into practice lessons his country learned.

 

 

[Yenn]

Decisions have to be made.

 

Luckily I made mine in 1960 and left the UK.

 

Now I can worry about Brexit, without it affecting me directly.

 

I know the quit vote must be correct bacause my sister in law was dead against it and she has always been a raving greenie. Lovely person though, just not with it politically.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

An absolute Masterstroke by chief negotiator David Davis MP. . .! In My view, he would make a much better PM than Mrs May ( A bowl of jelly could do the job better than our Theresa, it has been cruelly said )

The Parliamentary vote is purely on any 'DEAL' which is agreed, . . . . Not whether we are Leaving or not. If they vote down the 'Deal', then it's 'Out' and WTO rules.

 

He is, in effect, offering a certain group of Parliamentarians the opportunity of shooting themselves neatly in the collective foot.

Just catching up on this thread - the way I read the article was that the guvmint wouldn't exit the EU (unless chucked out) until parliament agreed...

 

 

[Phil Perry]

"A SECRET document, which remained locked away for 30 years, advised the British Government to COVER-UP the realities of EU membership so that by the time the public realised what was happening it would be too late.

 

Almost all of the shocking predictions – from the loss of British sovereignty, to monetary union and the over-arching powers of European courts – have come true.

 

But damningly for Tory Prime Minister Edward Heath, and all those who kept quiet about the findings in the early 70s, the document, known as FCO30/1048, was locked away under Official Secrets Act rules for almost five decades.

 

The classified paper, dated April 1971, suggested the Government should keep the British public in the dark about what EEC membership means predicting that it would take 30 years for voters to realise what was happening by which time it would be too late to leave.

 

That last detail was the only thing the disgraceful paper – prepared for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) – got wrong."

 

 

[Phil Perry]

The EU really needs Britain's money to pay for their extravagance. We even seem to be subsidising programmes for Germany and France and Italy. Generous of us - or of our traitorous leaders!

 

http://www.breitbart.com/lo...

 

EU on the Brink: ‘No Deal’ Brexit Leaves Brussels With No Money for France, Germany

 

 

 

The European Union’s unelected standing executive is growing nervous at the prospect of the budget cuts which a ‘No Deal’ outcome to the Brexit talks would entail.

 

 

 

The Brussels-based European Commission, headed by former Prime Minister of Luxembourg Jean-Claude Juncker, is worried that losing Britain’s net contribution will trim its budget by 12.5 per cent, or 14 per cent if the UK Rebate is not taken into account — and the EU is arguing it should not be.

 

In an effort to persuade the remaining member-states not to reduce its funding, the Commission’s Directorate-General for Regional and Urban Policy (DG Regio) has produced a ‘worst-case scenario’ report which suggests that, if Britain’s money is not replaced, regional aid for Western European member-states could be terminated entirely....

 

Germany, France, and crisis-wracked Italy would have to pony up an additional £3.4 billion, £1bn, and £900m, respectively, to keep the EU’s budget at the level it wants — but Merkel is unlikely to be able to pass an increase of more than £1bn.

 

U.S. Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross has also said he believes a ‘No Deal’ scenario would likely be worse for the EU than the UK, given EU businesses sell more to British consumers than vice versa.

 

Research suggests trade with the EU under default World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules — the ‘No Deal’ option — would cost British exporters £5.2 billion in tariffs, but, Britain would raise £12.9 billion in tariffs on EU imports itself, allowing British businesses most impacted by the change to be amply compensated.

 

How much blackmail and bribery do they have on our politicians?