Five little boys

[spacesailor]

Jerry-Atrick

 

" - only £1million! And his salaray at th time would have been aruond £70k - £80K"

 

It's PEANUTS in comparison !

 

"a salary of $53 million per annum, He left with an undisclosed golden handshake."

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

At £53m/year, the employee would have been very close to, if not the CEO. Also that person's salary would have had to have been approved by the board (themselves a rubber stamping brotherhood at the time with no real accountability). My illustration was to show how relatively junior people in the organisation could attract life changing incomes relatively quickly with little oversight and how this could lure them into impropriety.

 

We had similar rorts here though it was disguised as a smaller retainer and large guaranteed bonus. The guaranteed bonus didn't have to be reported as it is not technically their base salary (yeah - right!). It still figured in their golden handshake calculation.

 

I believe guaranteed bonuses are illegal in Europe now and know that bonuses over a certain amount (£10,000 in the UK and an equivalent in Europe) have to be deferred in stages and paid in company stock with clawback provisions for misconduct

 

 

[spacesailor]

Yes BUT $53m out of the shareholders pocket, The that LARGE undisclosed Golden handshake.

 

The Law could get a finger on that "undisclosed golden handshake"

 

No wonder he took off back to his country.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[old man emu]

At the risk of appearing to be a bit boorish, I'd like to start dragging the thread back to the original, or nearly original thought.

 

It has been about five weeks now since the boys started in Kindergarten. The changes have been dramatic. Now they can read a bit, and are starting to practice writing short phrases, making sure that there is a "finger space" between words. They are slowly getting the hang of classroom discipline, but the desire to please the teacher still causes some to call out when it is not their turn to talk.

 

However, they have been caught-out in the playground for being little boys. Do you remember playing cowboys and indians in he playground? Or if you are a bit younger, Power Rangers? Little boys always engage in some rough-housing at that age. But these boys are now on "discipline watch". They have broken the cardinal rule - no touching other children. There's no malice in their play. No bullying. No gang attacks. But, since schools are matriarchies where the white ribbon is hoisted daily on the flagstaff, this normal behaviour results in condemnation and punishment.

 

How about using a bit of discretion and let these babies get used to the Nanny World of education?

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

That does seem a little over the top... May want to think about sending them to a different nursery/kinder

 

 

[old man emu]

That does seem a little over the top... May want to think about sending them to a different nursery/kinder

It's the local State Public School.

 

Just a thought .... I wonder how they deal with the normal psychological rough-housing of little girls, called bitchiness? I suppose that since primary schools are matriarchies, then bitchiness is encouraged to 'empower" women in the future.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Just thinking about it a bit more, there may be more to it. Firstly, the state education system is chronically underfunded and coupled with the massive waste that government is, the resources are simply too stretched. Befire we cry a lack of teachers and support staff, there is the system as a whole. It is generally accepted that there should be a control on behaviour that can exhibit violent tendencies (I am in no way suggesting your grandson is doing such). There is also probably the question of civil liability should, under the supervision of the school, a bone be broken or some other major injury that may be perceived to have been caused by perceived unruly and/or excessive behaviour. I am not sure how much effective control in terms of policy an individual head teacher can exert, but if there is around this area, then it may be that the head teacher is overly sensitive to some of these types of behaviour - maybe she was beaten up by her big brother in these sorts of games. The list goes on.

 

It may not be society generally that wants to breed a bunch of effeminite males (although we watched episode 3 of River Cottage Aus tonight and my partner made the comment that it is a little over-acted and seems to want to bring out the effeminate side of men), but the system is weighted from providing the individualised approach required and the schools are looking to protect themselves from any potential liability and litigation.

 

I would encourage your son and daughter-in-law to have a chat to the school/kindegarten and understand the underlying concern that has led to your grandson being put on the watch list. It's not a question of going in all guns blazing, but wanting to understand what has driven it and what they can do to help the situation. Even if the school reps get a little hot under the collar, maintain composure and calmness and politely question anything that doesn't seem right, noting not to question the person or their judgement, but question any logic or rationale. I know from experience this tact works well with teachers and heads - they have enough parents who moan and complain outright, often illogically and unjustifiably, that this engaging approach usually is refreshing to them and they tend to be less defensive.

 

 

[Bruce]

Looking after boys is a big problem in schools these days for sure. There is a serious shortage of male teachers, and no wonder what with the risks they have with accusations of molestation. My advice to them would be to wear a go-pro camera, but wait.. that would infringe the kid's privacy huh.

 

There are actually boys who have been brought up in a single-mother household and sent to kindy and schools with all-female teachers who don't know they can pee standing up.

 

All I can suggest OME is that you do what you can to look after the boys out of school. And complain to the state minister of education, in writing, whenever you have a point to make. They are supposed to reply but don't bet on it.

 

 

[old man emu]

I suppose that you can't blame a kid who has been indoctrinated to violence by a constant diet of violence-based "entertainment" from the land of the World's policeman.

 

What I didn't mention was that the grandson came home on Monday with a second school shirt marked on the back with marker pen. The wielder of the pen? The kid also involved in the playground rough-housing. I'm told that a letter has been sent home to his parents. The kid obviously is a bit young to have identified the difference in behavioral standards between pre-school and kindy. I can't even generate an iota of anger at him for doing it, and all I would say to his parents is "Kids! ". Luckily both shirts were saved. Let's hope by Term 2 things begin to settle.

 

 

[Bruce]

Jerry, it is nothing to do with money. I had wonderful schooling and there was no money at all. There were other things, like the perception of the teachers as being respectable professionals, which more than made up any shortfall in money.

 

Personally, I reckon the current negative things about state schools come from an unholy alliance between the nasty rich, who want state schools to fail, and the bleeding heart politically correct lot who want the state schools to sacrifice the good kids for the benefit of the disadvantaged kids. They "agree " that smart kids at state schools should fail.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Bruce, definitely agree that money by itself won't necessarily fix things (hence the government waste, which includes pursuing ridiculous ideological agendas anf throwing good money after bad pet schemes of public servants). My point is more about the system as a whole. Unfortunately, though, money does come into it. When I was in secondary school, our best maths teachers left to pursue programming careers with ANZ and NAB - because going from a senior teacher to a relatively junior programmer increased their pay by 50% - they have mouths to feed and like most parents want to be able to afford the best for their offspring as well. The result - we were left with some real dross, where those students who were not super-motivated or pushed from home simply gave up and transferred to humanities subjects.

 

Also, if the government doesn't leave enough money to employ the right number of resources and those teachers are over-stretched, something has to give. Couple that with reckless social engineering policies and unnecessary administrative burdens placed on teachers, even more has to give. Then throw in targets designed to homogenise the population into lemings, for which staff are incentivised to achieve and the system as a whole seems at best, not fit for today's purpose; at worst, broken.

 

I agree that the stature of the teaching impression needs to be actively improved; we have to remove the adage that "those that can't, teach". Teaching (whether it is school, music, flying or other) is the one profession that can make or break a person they are teaching - very few other professions have that affect, yet in almost all facets of life, it is poorly compensated, largely unappreciated and a perception they have long holidays and only school hours. Of course, that perception is as real as the perception that when the engine of an aircraft stops, it will fall out of the sky uncontrollably.

 

I don't hide the fact that I put my kids into private school - The resources are there; on balance, they attract the better teachers (although, as I have noted, in state schools, I have had some fantastic teachers), they are generally patronised by families that expect and support their children to achieve the best they can, so the hope is my children get dragged along; they tend to be more meritocratic and, importantly, they tend to be more individualised. My children went from a state primary school of 30 kids, 1 teacher and 1 teaching assistant per class to a private school where the classes were around 14 - 15 with a teacher and two teaching assistants. The difference in their progress was stark as they were no longer subject to herd mentality. However, it does have its problems - mostly to do with very wealthy families giving their kids a lot of money and it being spend on less than savory things, simply because they can. We try and manage that though educating our kids (and we don't have the means to give them the excesses other families do). The other problem is that these kids have the latest kit and wel can't get them that, either.

 

It is a huge sacrfice, especially on my income alone, and to be honest, there is not much in the paypacket left over. I have all but stopped flying for now; our holidays are meagre and while we have the XC90 (purchased pre-private school), I run around in the equivalent of the old bomb we used to buy for $500 when we got our P plates. But, who would have guessed, other than English and the Arts, my daughter has a talent for STEM subjects (even though she is not enthused by them)? In the state system, we had written her off as not academic at all (English adn Art were the exception); turns out she isn't bad as she won the only academic scholarship in her year (against a wide field including the headmaster's daughter). Although my son pines for London and his mates there, he has won academic awards and despite his best resistance, they are exposing him for the sportsperson he is.

 

That is not to say there aren't great state schools - of course there are; nor is to to say there aren't rubbish private schools - of course there are. We spent a lot of time looking at both and in the end it was a careful selection that has largely worked (although the move was probably too big for my son at his age, but having said that, he is happy with the proepect of the move to Aus?!!). However, the resources private schools have coupled with their ability to pay more, attract by and large better teachers - and as they are not bound by public service conditions, able to more easily move out non-performing teachers, they represent much of what we should aim to have in a state school system - more individualised learning.

 

Of course, in our prospective move to Aus, I have been speaking to private schools there. Their approach to individual teaching is even more pronounced (for want of a better word); I wish I had been a little more vocal about the subject three years ago.

 

 

[Bruce]

Well said Jerry. You are of a younger generation than me, sorry if I was fooled by your name. Computers were unheard of in my school years. And my kids are well into their 40's. They have both done well in life and part of the reason is that we thought like you and looked carefully at schools. We too settled for private schools for the same reasons.

 

Getting back to my days, teachers in Alice Springs were professionals along with the doctors , lawyers , civil engineers and maybe priests.. People with university degrees were treated with respect. Hard to believe, but airline pilots didn't quite make the cut.

 

But my primary school was made of asbestos-cement sheets, and the walls were unlined. In grade 4, I got to sit on a wall side and store things on the nogging next to me. No cooling or heating, that was 30 years in the future.

 

Some of the primary school teachers were great, although they did not have degrees on account of how primary teachers just went to teachers college.

 

One teacher in particular was of Barossa Valley German heritage and I credit him with saving me from the stupid English idea that tradesmen were low class. ( Most subjects were very English, and we were just as bad at home with Enid Blyton and Biggles.)

 

This teacher encouraged us to make things for our weekend homework... gosh if you turned up on Monday with a well-built kite, you got an "A" and lots of praise. One kid made a lamp from a beer bottle and managed to drill a hole through the glass with a bit of copper tube and some wet sand. He finished up a millionaire crash-repair business owner.

 

We were supposed to be hostile to the Catholic kids ( who went to a separate school ), but we actually felt sorry for them because they used to get whipped by this nasty nun who had a length of electric flex and ( I see now) serious mental health problems.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

@Bruce - no need to aopologise - we had kids late (even for normally being late) in our lives (my partner and I are a month apart in age). If we had children at a nominally normal age for child bearing, they would be around 30 now. So I am probably not as young as you think (and dealing with a girl entering her teens and a boy who is a head-strong teenager sometimes makes me feel 10 years older than I really am!).

 

Firstly, we are very lucky to be able and I am thankfull to (almost) afford private school for the two children on my income alone (having said that, partner has just got a job to help out while I wait for my next gig).I know there are many people who simply can't afford it, period. For many (partuclarly city areas), there is still a choice and when I went to high school, for example, my father worked out the best within a reasonable commute and although we were outside its catchment, he made sure I got into it (I think we had a rellie that lived nearby and he put my address down as there). Obviously, choice is limited for people in rural areas. If we invested in our childrens' education, then a lot of the issues we see today would simply fizzle out over time (to a greater or lesser extent). And by investing, I don't just mean pumping money into it, but committing to apply, standards, pastroral care, individual learning, flexibility, compassion, dedication, accountability and as important as the school education of our children, parents taking responsibility rather than delegating responsibility for the total education of their children.

 

 

[spacesailor]

J A

 

Just why should one have to "lie" to get the school of choice,

 

Some schools are so bad they should be closed, Not renamed, (The something sports school ) not far from here was the one they sent the people from Redfern to, after their riots.

 

New name & lots of money spent, But the locals know, and don't want to send their kids there.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

If the government, parents and society recognised education of our future and will directly affect all sorts of things including economic growth, ecological sustainability, equality (or maybe we mean fairness), peaceful, law-abiding, truly democratic, healthy (physically and mentally) and invested in that education in terms of money, commitment and consistency at home, at school, at the footy club, at the air league, etc, then maybe there wouldn't be such a disparity between schools (and communities) and the need to lie to get your kids into a decent school (whatever decent means to each individual). And that is the issue - everyone will have a slight variation on values and therefore what a good education should be. For example, if you are of a faith, you would probably consider an education without (hopefully a broader) religious education component as incomplete. If you are a sporty family, you would expect the education system to have advanced sports facilities and the list goes on.

 

And that is my point; the education system is not limited to schools; they are just a cog in the educational system which really does start at home and extends to schools, sporting/activity clubs, religiious institutions (whether we like it or not), government services (police, social services, health services, etc). It provides a flexible education system so that those who value religion are afforded the use of religious institutions to incorporate into their childrens' education (unf, these take a too narrow approach). Similarly of sporting clubns, scouts/air league and whatever else is out there. It takes visionary governmental, community organisation and parental leadership to move the current culture so that all facets of a child's education work in harmony and offer childrend the best chance of success. according to the type of person they are; and it also takes visionary leadership to accept that everyone plays (or can play) and important part in society whether they are a street-sweeper or brain surgeon; each should be accorded respect for their profession and their occupation should not be used as a baraometer from which to judge them (criminals excluded) for two reasons: a) without either, life would be a little less enjoyable (in fact for most people, the street sweeper has a far more profound effect on daily life) and b) the street sweeper may have overcome far more adversity to get to where he is and may just be the person you want aruond if you're unlucky enough to be caught in a sticky situation.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Here is an interesting article that is read without any context, you would think a horrid juvenile delinquent with little if no chance of leading a law-abiding life: BORSTAL BOY STEALS PLANE - Barrier Miner (Broken Hill, NSW : 1888 - 1954) - 24 Mar 1951. His story featured in Piliot magazine last year (I think) and he is working in ops at a Welsh airfield or flying school. The story was a reminder of why we should be careful to pass judgement (and the article was clever as it opened with an exerpt of a quoted story from the time that described the litany of summary offences and the bostals he had been in - all true - and whether intentionally or not, forming an opinion in the reader's mind of a recalcitrant law-breaker. I am a bit hazy on it, but it went something like for some reason he was sent to forster parents where he was abused, ran away and sent back to them when found. Ran away again and stole something to sustain himself. Sent to borstals where abuse (including sexual) was rife and followed an escape/apprehended/send to another borstal cycle. During this time, he developed an immense passion for aviation. He read everything he could and I think pestered wardens incessantly so they arranged for donations of books to the library. He taught himself to fly from reading books, stole the auster andm, without any practical instruction flew it to France without damaging it. The owner was so impressed, he offered to allow him to fly it and have him taught to fly, which he declined because he thought it wasn't right to take advantage of hospitality from someone he just stole from. Though, it was a turning point for him and worked to get his life on the straight and narrow and in his retirement years is working in ops (having been a PPL once he could afford it).

 

Now, imagine if the borstal system was set up to identify and encourage their guests to reach their true potential rather than just treat them as common criminals? Not saying it would work for everyone, but this person may have led the life of an airline pilot or maybe been the first UK astronaught, or led a RAF figher squadron - who knows? Regardless, this ops person is someone I would want by my side if I had some problem to deal with.

 

 

[nomadpete]

Sounds suspiciously like you might be describing the biography of one of our colourful, entertaining contributors?

 

;-)

 

You know. The one presently incarcerated closer to you than me. :-)

 

 

[spacesailor]

". And that is the issue - everyone will have a slight variation on values and therefore what a good education should be."

 

I have done it(boarding a relo to get him into the Correct area), he needed a musical/ art school, ( now going to be an electrician).& also chauffeured quite a few to respective High Schools & Taff s to make sure they could be given a Much better education than I.

 

One Granddaughter learned to drive going & returning from school, now trying for a higher nursing grade.

 

"Now, imagine if the borstal system was set up to identify and encourage their guests to reach their true potential"

 

My niece in England runs a "Last Chance Home" for wayward youth. If they don't settle there they go to the big borstal home, and it's on their record for life.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Bruce]

Here's a sobering thing I read... It is possible to look at a kindy group and predict quite accurately which kids are going to jail one day.

 

Personally, I don't believe that, since those jail-bound kids may just as well become CEO's , think I.

 

 

[spacesailor]

OR

 

American presidents

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Marty_d]

Or all of the above. I know one high-flyer, now President, who should end up in prison.

 

 

[hihosland]

Or all of the above. I know one high-flyer, now President, who should end up in prison.

And may still do so