Vice chancellor's pay

[Bruce]

In my day, the heads were the professors running each department. They cared about the quality of graduates and actually failed some. They thought that a poor graduate would reflect on them.

 

The chancellor was a stuffed shirt figurehead and the vice-chancellor was the chief clerk.

 

How times have changed...Vice-chancellors getting a million a year and some graduates are nearly illiterate.

 

I feel cheated and angry, but don't know what to do.

 

 

[Marty_d]

To be fair, if graduates are nearly illiterate then the problem is with the primary school system, not university.

 

Vice-chancellor's salaries are obscene - but so are those of board members, company directors and CEO's of any large business.

 

In an ideal world there'd be a base salary for every position and add-ons for things like "value to the community", "technical difficulty", "responsibility", "risk of harm", "learning qualifications" etc. That way CEO's would be paid much the same as jobs of actual value, such as child care workers, cops, nurses and teachers.

 

 

[Bruce]

I am not kidding Marty, for example there was a high-school teacher who couldn't write his own report cards. His senior had to do it for him. Now he probably should have learned more at primary school, but the main thing is he should not have been made a graduate teacher.

 

 

[coljones]

I am not kidding Marty, for example there was a high-school teacher who couldn't write his own report cards. His senior had to do it for him. Now he probably should have learned more at primary school, but the main thing is he should not have been made a graduate teacher.

But at the end of the day your example (education failure rate) is still much lower than, say, Rotax engines. Quite a few technical graduates are highly literate in their primary languge, mathematics, the language they use all day in their jobs. Business and education could give greater concideration to providing PAs to technical professionals who can spend a bit of time fixing up the lousy spelling of professionals when they communicate with the technical illiterates among business, politics and the general public.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I don't have a degree despite numerous attempts - basically got bored and then family came along - yet have done reasonably well both in Aus and the UK working in what are normally degree required professions. I would consider myself good at what I do and I don't tackle things I am not that good at (at least in a professional capacity). In one of my roles, I had to inteview people of certain maths qualities that were beyond bieng self-taught... Almost all applicants were PhDs in maths and at first I was embarrassed interviewing them. I didn't hire one of them because it was clear they knew the theory and were birght as buttons buthad a snowflake's chance in the warmer parts of applying it to practice.

 

Agree that if someone is illiterate, that is the fault of the primary school in the absence of learning or other difficulties (domestic issues, etc)..

 

 

[Bruce]

The guy was a woodwork teacher. He was no good at mathematics either.

 

And one of the dumbest guys I ever knew had a Phd, and this was without any redeeming features at all.

 

My son did a trade and has done better financially than any of his mates who got degrees, so you did the right thing Marty. Mind you, medical degrees still work to make money.

 

The rot set in with the rise of "managerialism" which has given us people on million dollar salaries who regard the students as customers and the teaching staff as workers. That ended the "community of scholars" idea which had been in play for many years.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

In financial services here, they have decided the path to avoding previous misdiscretions is to sort of do what they do in other high-risk industries such as aviation and have a proper audit trail of work done, inspections, etc (BTW, we don't have to sign a daily inspection like in Aus GA). Anyway, I was putting in new set of control systems for a specific business and the methodology had to be presented to the board for sign-off. I designed the methodology in conjunction with the head of the business, and the head of the business was to present the methodology for board approval. It could not be implemented without board approval, of which the meetings are well documented/minuted and decisions distributed to the senior leadership team.

 

About 3 days before the board meeting, my manager asked me if I had got approval of the methodology from the business head. I replied that we agreed it was the right way to go, but no formal sign-off. He got a little terse with me and gruffly responded that we needed to get business head approval before it could be presented to the board. I asked why as it was the board that would determine if it was acceptable and only their approval would allow it to be commissioned. He responded that we have to evidencce everything and the business head has to show is approves of the methodology. This bloke was normally level headed and I was a bit perplexed about it all. So I asked him to imagine in the board meeting, after he has presented the methodology and a board member asks if he agrees/approves of it. Will he say "No, someone else did it, I am just presenting it?". His response was "I can't believe we are watign this time arguing about it. Just do it" Was totall absurd, but i went to the business head and said something like, apparently I have to get formal approval from you that you approve of the methodology that you will submit to the board for approval. He rolled his eyes, shook his head and with a bemused smile tapped out an email to me stating exactly that.

 

Some time later, after my manager had gone to pastures much greener, an internal auditor rocks up to ensure we have complied with our project delivery approach, which is effectively did we get all the approvals we needed and is all the documentation in order - not did the darned thing deliver what it was supposed to. He asked about the business head approval before presenting to the board. I asked the same question as I did of my manager. His response was it is in our project delivery standards and we must do it. I asked him to point out where in the standards it is and he duly pointed out that the responsible officer has to sign off project specifications. I pointed out in this case the chairman of the board, which is the highest level of seniority/responsibility took business responsibility and it was absurd that a business head would in a minuted meeting, present something they didn't approve - and that should be evidence enough. He just folded his arms and said business head approval has failed in this project. I presented the approval and asked him to read it. He was happy his job of managing the quality of project delivery was done.

 

[edit] I now understand my manager's thougth process.

 

 

[Marty_d]

My son did a trade and has done better financially than any of his mates who got degrees, so you did the right thing Marty. Mind you, medical degrees still work to make money.

I agree that tradies have been on a good thing the past few years. (I'm not one, by the way.) Wasn't always that way - I don't think a lot of chippies in previous generations made a killing.

 

Not all medical streams make money. My wife spent 4 years at Uni becoming a pharmacist, and the pay ain't that much better than a regular shop assistant. She said the other day she wouldn't recommend pharmacy as a career choice these days.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

My sis in law is a GP (in Aus) and she complains that her salary is about the same as I would earn in Aus doing my job. Problem is, that would be my full time earnings against her two days/week

 

 

[Bruce]

Darn it I need to have a cataract operation. While I was looking up the detail of what is involved, I came across the unwanted bit of info that cataract surgeons earned $ 28,000 a day.

 

The specialist side of medicine in Australia shows what an all-powerful unio.... errr college can achieve for its members. You need the absolute power to stop newcomers entering the field and you need government enforcement to back this power.

 

GP's don't have this in Australia, but they do in the US, where the AMA rules supreme.

 

There are lots of new GP clinics springing up around here, I reckon they are already feeling a bit of pressure from competition. Why don't they become specialists? Lots of them want to, but its a closed shop.

 

 

[spacesailor]

I go for an eye test next month at Westmead hospital , I have already had one at a standard Optometrist. and no-one got the results, My doctor, my eye clinic (SpecSavers) Nor apparently, Westmead hospital that sent me to that particular optrometrist.

 

All for turning 75

 

spacesailor

 

 

[old man emu]

Here in the glorious, ex-rural Southwest Sydney, where houses spring from the ground faster than mushrooms after a week of rain, there are two businesses that flourish - child care centres and medical centres.

 

My wife and I have been going to the same medical practice for about 20 years. We used to get good personal attention, but now it's just "Come in. What do you want? Sorry, only one thing at a time. Here's your script. Pay at reception." And from the waiting room you can see the builders at work constructing the new day surgery building.

 

 

[gareth lacey]

While in Sydney in the new year I drove out to Camden,Rossmore,Bringelly,Narellan and was amazed how it is so built up, I used to ride horses out from Rossmore in the seventies, wow has it changed , my old friend att Rossmore is still hanging on to his 5 acres but is constantly being harassed to sell last offer was 1.8 million per acre I had a property in Catherine Fields , the area is nothing like what I remembered, new houses everywhere and they are huge ,last time I was there was 14 years ago, it is becoming totally urbanised and with that comes all the problems ,no transport ,crime, my old friend has been broken into 5 times in thye last 2 years ,he is 82 and infirm, they keep taking easily sold electronics stuff ,all his saddles,, progress yeah right

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Tell your mate to let the development company know the type of replacement property he wants - and where (and make sure it is really what he wants and where he wants and is worth a bit more than their offer) and tell them if they buy it for him (and of course give it to him), they can have his property. A mate of my father had a crappy apartment on the hinterland site of the pacific highway on the gold coast and the big Japanese developer/bank that was financing a lot of development in QLD bought out everyone but him from the crappy apartment block he was in. He said to get him out, they had to buy him a modern 3br apartment on Cavill Avenue [edit] not Calvill Avenue, but the Esplanade [/edit] facing the beach at least on the 5th floor They duly obliged.

 

I can't recall the name of the bank, anyway, 2 days after he moved in, they went bust and when I visited him about 2 years after the deal, he could still show me the old apartment building, now standing derelict, from his new apartment and I have to say his new apartment was very, very nice.

 

 

[spacesailor]

On the Hill (winstonhills )

 

A large block of land (some-ones reserve) was sold with the provision the trees were to be left to provide shade & soil stability.

 

Day one, in came the "BALL&CHAIN" to clear everything out for the trucks & concrete- forming gangs to get to work.

 

Week two all was silent, Six months before a worker was seen on site, two years later not much greenery left.

 

I could take a photo from my front door, but it's depressing looking at that land that had lots of native animals including a pair of "Wombats".

 

Did need binoculars to see the small ones (animals)

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

It's a shame, no, it's criminal when this sort of thing happens. I recall in the Lower Plenty/Eltham area of Melbourne, years ago, there was some law/by-law passed where they could only cut down trees necessary for building - not wantonly. When I was driven from Tulla to Yarra Glen last year through Greensborough and then through the Lower Plenty/Eltham area, I was shocked at the volume of development in the area, but how aesthetically pleasing it was as there were many mature trees around, giving some indication of the pristine woodlands than existed previously.

 

The property development industry is, generally, a very profitable industry where returnd well exceed things like retail, manufacturing, etc... A lot loke banks. There should be some up front restoration charge to put good monumental stuff-ups such as that Spacesailor describes. Governments have to climb out of industry's pockets occasionally. In the nuke world, generation companies need to set aside larger amounts of money for decommissioning costs... Why can't the property development/construction indistry be requierd to set aside a certain amount for reasonable restoration?

 

 

[spacesailor]

Whats really criminal is making developers set-aside blokes of land for recreation (tennis & playgrounds) then said council sells to developer to erect blocks of flats on the "free land".

 

Was Low density, council changed to medium, now going up to high density housing estate.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

Councils are generally doing a crook job of planning and developing. The motivation appears to be maximise RATE income, and make a bit of graft on the side, in the worst cases. Council salaries are based on it. Empire building is all around you. The Councils main function is to get more rates and charges from the captive audience. If you don't like it, shift to another probably equally badly managed Council. then go crazy. Nev

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Someone I knew lived on Mount Dandenong and he wanted two trees either side of his driveway removed, but the council wouldn't approve it. One day some fellas from the SEC (it was that long ago) turned up with a bucket of yellow paint and started making trees. When they left, he marked these two trees with yellow paint and a few days later, they were gone.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Red

 

quick before that council gets YOUR tree's on their books, get it down & plead ignorance of "councils changed rules",

 

Don't expect any help or sympathy after they put it on their books.

 

And NO, councils are not liable for damage from your tree.

 

As soon as my Tree gets to a "Significant size" I cut it down, & stuff their system.

 

After all I planted it for my enjoyment, not for councils book-keeping, I usually tell them when they come to inspect the missing tree, I planted two in its place. (chop one out very quickly).

 

Two gum tree's & one Jacaranda, and I just bought an Aldi chain-saw to make another cut.

 

spacesailor