Have they thought this through?

[old man emu]

I've been noticing while sitting at traffic lights lately that just as the lights change to green, the engines in cars beside me start up. I've found out that this is a new 'fuel saving' thing. The engine turns off when the car is stopped and held on the foot brake. I don't know how much fuel this would save over a year driving in urban traffic, but the concept raises some concerns with me.

 

1. Surely this constant engaging of the starter will rapidly wear the teeth on the starter gear and flywheel ring gear. With the way modern engines are shoe-horned into the engine compartment, replacing these parts is going to be a massively expensive job in terms of labour costs.

 

2. Since the use of the starter requires the battery to be in good condition, what is going to happen after a few years when the battery is on its last legs? Who really monitors the condition of their car battery? The first time most people know that the battery has had it is when it won't start the car on a winter's morning. Can you imagine the peak hour chaos that would be caused by one or two of these card failing to restart after stopping in a traffic jam on a main road?

 

 

[Marty_d]

The car probably tells the mechanic if condition 1 or 2 is imminent, when they hook it up via USB.

 

We bought a 2015 Hyundai Santa Fe last year, my mechanic tells me they need servicing at maximum 7,500km intervals, which was a bit of a shock to me. And that doesn't even turn the engine off at the lights.

 

 

[old man emu]

Progress marches on, but it is very annoying when you are driving a car like this. Fortunately, the Mazda 6 I drove let you disable this feature.

 

I still reckon the problem of added wear and tear on the starter and ring gear has not been resolved.

 

 

[facthunter]

Presumably the starter mechanisms would be designed for the extra wear it's exposed to. In congested traffic idling engines cause a lot of pollution. It's not for the fuel saving. Some parts of Europe are way over the safe levels of air pollution and certain diesels are banned on some days in some towns. If it's way over the safe limit something has to be done. I've driven some of the new types. It certainly happens a lot but doesn't affect the driving. The start up is instant when you release the brake. Of course the airconditioning stops at the same time. Nev

 

 

[coljones]

The car probably tells the mechanic if condition 1 or 2 is imminent, when they hook it up via USB.

We bought a 2015 Hyundai Santa Fe last year, my mechanic tells me they need servicing at maximum 7,500km intervals, which was a bit of a shock to me. And that doesn't even turn the engine off at the lights.

Hyundai servicing is at 15,000 unless you flog it. Modern materials and manufacturing means that cars are made better and cheaper and should last longer in normal conditions. You will still need a Rolls Royce if you insist on driving all over the farm delivering hay or picking up sheep. The Santa Fe might not be up to that abuse. Engineers making life better for you!!

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...I still reckon the problem of added wear and tear on the starter and ring gear has not been resolved.

I believe most hybrids use the old integrated starter/Dynamo idea, so there should be no ring gear or Bendix mechanism.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Hyundai servicing is at 15,000 unless you flog it. Modern materials and manufacturing means that cars are made better and cheaper and should last longer in normal conditions. You will still need a Rolls Royce if you insist on driving all over the farm delivering hay or picking up sheep. The Santa Fe might not be up to that abuse. Engineers making life better for you!!

15,000 is what the logbook says, but the mechanic (who's been in the business his whole life and has lots of experience with Hyundai's) is pretty firm on this point. Given I've been going to him for years, trust his work, and he's always been honest & reasonable with us, I have no reason to doubt him. In any case I'd rather pay the extra than take the risk.

 

Re the farm work... with the old Subaru I used to go off-road up the bush a bit to drag down a trailer load of wood, but I won't do it with this car.

 

 

[storchy neil]

with the old Subaru I used to go off-road up the bush a bit to drag down a trailer load of wood, but I won't do it with this car.

 

why wont it handle it jee some people like hard work pushing a wheel barrow to get the wood neil

 

 

[storchy neil]

OME the 2017 3.2 ranger that I own has the fuel saver fitted the starter motor on the 2013 that I owned hit hard on the fly wheel the 2017 starter motor has a softer hit neil

 

 

[nomadpete]

So how does this brave new world fit with me?

 

My old 1968 land rover had a 50 year useful life. Now, my Nissan (only new car ever) has been described as 'normal'. In that time, over 7 years (costing more than the car is worth), There have been major repairs to injector pump, cooling, replaced timing chain. And expecting clutch soon.....

 

Don't expect it to be still on the road at 50 years. Generally expect a service life for modern cars of maybe 5 years.

 

So this is progress?

 

At my age I can't afford to buy a new car every three years but that is the only option unless I want to play Russian Roulette with used cars. But there seems to be no option?

 

 

[octave]

I have never owned a car less than 10 years old and I am pretty slack with maintenance. The last time I called road service was about 17 years ago with a dodgy starter motor and even then I got it started just before they arrived. I have just bought a 2007 ford focus with 77K on the clock for $7500. I had a thorough check before purchase, the only significant fault is the brake discs could use machining, work fine but sometimes a little squeaky. My old car is a 1995 Lancer which I have decided to run into the ground, the only maintenance it gets is to top up the oil and brake fluid. I am waiting for it to fail but it just won't die

 

I suspect that modern cars are actually cheaper (compared to annual wage) and more reliable When I was a kid our family cars used to break down all the time. I also remember being woken up early when I was quite young by the sound of my Dad hand cranking the Austin Cambridge as he was trying to get to work. Can't remember the last time I had a car fail to start (other than battery failure) certainly not in the last 15 years anyway.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...I suspect that modern cars are actually cheaper (compared to annual wage) and more reliable When I was a kid our family cars used to break down all the time. I also remember being woken up early when I was quite young by the sound of my Dad hand cranking the Austin Cambridge as he was trying to get to work. Can't remember the last time I had a car fail to start (other than battery failure) certainly not in the last 15 years anyway.

Not only are cars getting more reliable, they're cheaper and safer. Service intervals are so long it beats me why the bonnet isn't bolted shut to keep knuckleheads out. The only new car I ever bought was a Daihatsu Charade- light and versatile,

 

totally reliable and cheaper to run than any motorcycle I've owned,

 

 

[nomadpete]

I agree that modern vehicles are cheaper and generally more reliable. As long as you get good one, you can get some high milage out of them.

 

BUT they're so much more complicated, so when anything fails, it is more expensive to fix and harder to find specific parts after a couple of years. And a lot harder to find a talented automotive technician who really knows his stuff. Also, although it was (in the good old days) more common to see a breakdown on the side of the road, it was most likely something simple like points needing adjustment, which can be sorted easily.

 

For instance:

 

In the middle of the Simson Desert I came across a new Mercedes Benz which was holding us up. The driver said "it's stuck in limp-home-mode and won't go faster than 20kph". I didn't know how to help, but our 20yr old "old school" car just tootled past without any such issues (16000k outback driving with no more than its usual simple maintenance)

 

 

[Phil Perry]

I've been noticing while sitting at traffic lights lately that just as the lights change to green, the engines in cars beside me start up. I've found out that this is a new 'fuel saving' thing. The engine turns off when the car is stopped and held on the foot brake. I don't know how much fuel this would save over a year driving in urban traffic, but the concept raises some concerns with me.

1. Surely this constant engaging of the starter will rapidly wear the teeth on the starter gear and flywheel ring gear. With the way modern engines are shoe-horned into the engine compartment, replacing these parts is going to be a massively expensive job in terms of labour costs.

 

2. Since the use of the starter requires the battery to be in good condition, what is going to happen after a few years when the battery is on its last legs? Who really monitors the condition of their car battery? The first time most people know that the battery has had it is when it won't start the car on a winter's morning. Can you imagine the peak hour chaos that would be caused by one or two of these card failing to restart after stopping in a traffic jam on a main road?

This was the reason that friend Mike got rid of his Toyota Prius. The restart at intersections got longer and longer to operate, that he began to hold up the traffic and got a lot of swearry motorists behind him into quite a tizzy. . . . .being of sound mind and character ( bit like me really ! ) he got rid and for the same money bought TWO smaller Toyota petrol driven cars and gave one to his Daughter, who is employed as his receptionist..

 

 

[storchy neil]

ever thought of turning auto start offfffffff neil

 

 

[Phil Perry]

ever thought of turning auto start offfffffff neil

NO. I don't drive one of them thingies. . . . .My mate paid premium for a system. He expected it to work properly for at least Six Months. . . . it buggered up in less than three. . .

 

 

[old man emu]

ever thought of turning auto start offfffffff neil

My son does it all the time, BUT, you have to remember to disengage the system every time you start the engine. Being ON is the default setting.

 

Consider this. At an intersection controlled by traffic lights, a feeder road from a residential area joins a main road. Vehicles in the feeder road make a right turn onto the main road. The turn is controlled by a turn arrow set of signals. Say that the green turn signal lights up for 60 seconds. It's morning peak traffic and twenty cars are queued to turn right. Each has this auto start operating. If each car does not start until the one in front has begun to move, that's 20 seconds lost. Plus the five seconds for the clod at the front to wake up to the fact that the arrow has turned green, and you can see that the cars at the end of the queue won't get through in that cycle. By the start of the next cycle, more cars have joined the queue.

 

This lack of movement is worsened by cars with anti-collision radar that results in the car maintaining a minimum distance from the one in front.

 

Is it any wonder that travel speeds in major urban areas is falling?

 

 

[facthunter]

The only experience I've had, OME is with a loaned Ford Kuga Titanium and there's no perceptible delay. Instantly when you remove your foot from the brake pedal, it's running.. My son's Focus RS has it turned off. Idling motors do pollute. Nev

 

 

[coljones]

That's what the powers that be want. Introducing a 30kph limit in Melbourne(if you can get up to that speed), and banning cars altogether from a large portion of the CBD. Pedestrians and cyclists rule. Won't be the world's most livable city for much longer.

It will be very liveable for pedestrians and cyclists. Car drivers need to stop the car and get out and smell the roses. As a taxpayer and ratepayer and registration payer I am over gifting roads to motorists just so they can kill people and run over those they don't kill and harass those they haven't yet managed to hit.

 

 

[facthunter]

The motorists mindset is changing. . Just blow your horn and expect everyone else to get out of the way. Text while driving. Forget you have a brake pedal and can actually slow down without dying of anything. Ask any motorcyclist, and I won't ride a pushbike sharing a road with cars anymore unless perhaps in the country, reluctantly. Nev

 

 

[old man emu]

[coljones]

Ah with all the arrogance one might expect of Jones, Zamarnek, Price, Hinch, deVine, Credland and Hadley. If he had started his spray at 8 minutes 30 it might have had some semblance of a balanced report. I'm not sure what he does in his day job but I think I would be more prepared to follow the lead of the manufacturer than this guy.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

We've been told that a major advantage of engine-stop is no exhaust pollution during extended idling in traffic.

 

 

[facthunter]

If it's not running it can't pollute and idling engines run rich and .the plugs cool off and get sooty. The manufacturers are given higher and higher emissions restrictions. This is one of the ways of meeting them. As for starter life a generator -starter system is common place through automotive history. 1914 Indian Hedstrom, 1928 Morris Cowley, 1936 DKW dynastart. Yamaha YD"S" series to name a few. I'm not saying the modern vehicles have that but an equally adequate system is hardly rocket science.. You would get used to this system. You can let it bother you if you must but.. Cities are much cleaner than they used to be even though they are all getting bigger. Some aren't ..Beijing has some real issues to do with topography and climate as well as the source of the pollution. Nev

 

 

[storchy neil]

oh shit lent me ranger to a mate got phone call to tell me there was something wrong with the ranger as it kept stopping when he stopped at the lights he was taking it to get it looked at then there is the but he is a builder neil