Another False Flag attack in Syria to fan the flames of war. . .

[Phil Perry]

Sarcasm Yes,. . but I'll bet that Dumbo Trumpy will fall for it again.. . .just as the war was coming to an end "We can't have that now. . ." Great excuse to maintain Yank troops on the ground. . .

 

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[Phil Perry]

I HAD decided not to post anything political on here, since most folks seem to disagree with my cynical take on things. . ., but I am so annoyed with Our 'Government' and their damn Doublespeak at the moment that I did.

 

Govt. and Meeja spokespersons are trying their best to rev up another UK military intervention in Syria. . .Including our redoubtable Foreign Secretary Boris ( the clown ) Johnson. . .

 

Look at their stance on Trucks in Germany running over Thirty Innocent people, killing three of them outright.. . ." We MUST NOT assume that this was carried out by a Jihadist of a certain faith,. . we need to calmly investigate all the available information before making a statement like this." And yet, within an hour of a faked chemical attack in Dhouma near Ghouta ( Syria ) with the Usual suspects from the 'White Helmets Hollywood Drama Movie company' ( Proven terrorists by reliable sources and positively linked to Al Quaeda and Al Nusra killers. ) carrying so called dead children from bombed buildings,. . the UK is screaming "Assad is a maniac. . we must bomb him NOW!" I despair.

 

Here is what they did in Aleppo. . . .

 

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why are the US and British Governments and Media falling for his nonsense again ? ?

 

This is no 'misunderstanding'.

 

The 'chemical attack' is pure bullcrap and they know it. You know it, I know it, the dogs in the street know it.

 

It's absolute bollox. These terrorists have been kidnapping hundreds of civilians and holding them prisoner in Ghouta for months, using them as Human Shields. Bloody sickening. . .

 

It's 'dodgy dossier' time all over again. . . .just like Blair / Bush and the Iraq war. . . Doctor David Kelly, a senior UN weapons inspector was 'Suicided' because he disagreed about Saddam's WMD.

 

Manufacture some bollox excuse to do what you wanted to do, do what you'd planned all along, and when your bollox excuse unravels. . . claim you made the best decision with the evidence available at the time... Again.

 

I don't want a war with the Russians, or anyone else for that matter. And we still have not had the truth about the 2 russians who were poisoned with a deadly nerve agent, supposedly by Putin but with ZERO MINUS evidence. . .. but have now miraculously recovered, but are not allowed to talk to the press, nor leave the hospital. . . new identities beckon. . .

 

Rant Over.

 

*****EDITED TO ADD NEW INFORMATION***** Yulia Skipral, the Daughter of Sergei, has been moved from the Salisbury hospital overnight by the Government to a secret 'Secure' location 'To protect her privacy' Hmm. M'kay. Can't speak in public,. . . so can't unravel the Establishment story. I guess that's the last we'll hear of her, and it will all vanish down the Govt. 'Memory Hole'

 

Phil.

 

[nomadpete]

Well, Phil. Your degree of disgust is pretty obvious. But please don't think that everyone on the fora are disagreeing with your cynicism. I'm pretty sure that most of us (at least those of us old enough to have seen it all before) are just as cynical as you. And fed up with our successive elected government's repeated betrayal of the public. Your opening picture above captures my sentiments precisely. It doesn't look like sarcasm to me, just statement of fact.

 

My cynicism goes further. Has anyone verified that the other pictures (eg of the rescued girl) were actually published over the timeframe claimed? As far as I'm concerned, ALL media reports are suspect because all media has an agenda or financial backers to please.

 

 

[octave]

Well, I am not convinced by a couple of memes. I am no more convinced than I am about so-called crisis actors in US shootings. Are 100% sure that the picture is of the same person beyond a shadow of a doubt? I am not. It does pay to be wary of poor quality evidence that just happens to support your or my political views.

 

FactCheck: Eva Bartlett’s claims about Syrian children

 

 

[willedoo]

Phil, with some credit to your mob, the U.K. rep at the U.N. has said that Britain would prefer to wait for the results of an investigation before bombing the cr*p out of people. It's the most sensible thing I've heard from the U.K. Government in decades. It does show however that even they are a bit suspicious.

 

I've been reading about this attack for a few weeks now on Russian news outlets. Their intelligence has been saying for quite a while now that a false flag attack by the rebels in that area was imminent. And guess what? Surprise, surprise, it's happened in some people's minds.

 

I think a lot of sheep don't look at the logic of it all. Assad's no dummy. He's at least got the brains to get a uni degree and work as an eye specialist in London. So when he's clearly on a roll and winning the war, why does he just suddenly wake up one day and think ' I know, let's gas some civilians so the Yanks can bomb us and the world hate us'.

 

Same thing happened with the one last year. All his ducks were lined up in a row, he was on a roll and everything was going his way. So why would he decide to gas a couple dozen civilians of no strategic importance?

 

The only common thread is that these 'attacks' always occur when the Syrian Arab Army is making game changing headway.

 

However I can understand how people of a naive nature would be upset at the video footage. But bear in mind, if you round up some of the village children at gunpoint, slap them around a bit and hit them with high pressure water, of course they will look distressed. Then all you have to do is email it to that idiot in the U.K. that runs that one man band show with an important sounding name, and presto! Welcome to the matrix.

 

Think of it this way, if you were a rebel group and you see the U.S. talking about pulling out of Syria, what's the best way to make them change their mind? Without the foreign powers there's no more weapons or pay packets.

 

 

[willedoo]

Well, I am not convinced by a couple of memes. I am no more convinced than I am about so-called crisis actors in US shootings. Are 100% sure that the picture is of the same person beyond a shadow of a doubt? I am not. It does pay to be wary of poor quality evidence that just happens to support your or my political views.

FactCheck: Eva Bartlett’s claims about Syrian children

Octave, I think we're entering an age where the mainstream believe whatever is dished up to them, as long as it's what they want to believe.

 

I've noticed in this latest incident, the media is using photos from the alleged attack last year.

 

Another classic was the well known image of an emaciated little girl supposedly starved due to the siege of Alleppo. Some journalists tracked her down in Lebanon. She was seven years old and healthy, not four year old as reported. The story was that she was ill years before, hence the weight loss and the photo.

 

It seems to be with journalism now that if you can't find photographic evidence to support your narrative, just pull an old file photo and bulls**t. Another one was the footage of the Greek economic riots. A well known U.S. media outlet ran that, claiming it was anti Putin riots in Moscow in the lead up to the presidential election ( the one before the last election). It only took a few minutes before the cat was out of the bag and it went viral.

 

 

[octave]

evidence to support your narrative, j

No, I do not have a narrative. I posted one real question about whether the meme shows the same girl or 3 different girls. I have no appetite for getting involved in a war similar to Iraq and Afghanistan, however, I think the truth is important even when it may not support my personal beliefs. My point is more that the evidence offered is shoddy. Now, of course, you perhaps will say I am falling for a conspiracy between most western countries and let's not forget Israel bombing the airfield near Homs, but you are quite incorrect. I am merely very wary of conspiracy theories that build unsubstantiated claim on top of unsubstantiated claim. To make it crystal clear I am questioning whether it is possible to look at the pictures and video of girl/s ls and ascertain that they are the same person. Do you think it is one girl?

 

 

[willedoo]

No, I do not have a narrative. I posted one real question about whether the meme shows the same girl or 3 different girls. I have no appetite for getting involved in a war similar to Iraq and Afghanistan, however, I think the truth is important even when it may not support my personal beliefs. My point is more that the evidence offered is shoddy. Now, of course, you perhaps will say I am falling for a conspiracy between most western countries and let's not forget Israel bombing the airfield near Homs, but you are quite incorrect. I am merely very wary of conspiracy theories that build unsubstantiated claim on top of unsubstantiated claim. To make it crystal clear I am questioning whether it is possible to look at the pictures and video of girl/s ls and ascertain that they are the same person. Do you think it is one girl?

Octave, you must have mis-understood the context of my post. My apologies for not being literally correct in my wording. I'm not a very good writer.

 

This quote "It seems to be with journalism now that if you can't find photographic evidence to support your narrative, just pull an old file photo and bulls**t.", is directed at journalists and their narrative and not you. When I wrote 'you' I was writing from the point of view of that journalist, whoever they may be. I did not mean you as in Octave.

 

Again my apologies for my bad writing skills.

 

 

[octave]

Octave, you must have mis-understood the context of my post. My apologies for not being literally correct in my wording. I'm not a very good writer.This quote "It seems to be with journalism now that if you can't find photographic evidence to support your narrative, just pull an old file photo and bulls**t.", is directed at journalists and their narrative and not you. When I wrote 'you' I was writing from the point of view of that journalist, whoever they may be. I did not mean you as in Octave.

 

Again my apologies for my bad writing skills.

That's cool, I actually was not in the least bit offended nor was I intending to imply that. I do always like to make it clear that not believing thing A does not necessarily mean believing in thing B Anyway, no apology is expected or needed:wave:

 

 

[Marty_d]

More to the point, the "meeja" (does misspelling a word somehow diminish the thing you're referring to?) is at least comprised of professional journalists - or was, before the media owners decided to fire vast swathes of them - the majority of whom actually verify stories and have a code of conduct.

 

Social media, on the other hand, has no code of conduct, no verification, no standards, and is subject to interference from spin doctors like the recently outed Cambridge Analytica.

 

I don't know the truth about what's happening in Syria. It's unlikely to be found in conspiracy theories on Facebook though.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

More to the point, the "meeja" (does misspelling a word somehow diminish the thing you're referring to?) is at least comprised of professional journalists - or was, before the media owners decided to fire vast swathes of them - the majority of whom actually verify stories and have a code of conduct.Social media, on the other hand, has no code of conduct, no verification, no standards, and is subject to interference from spin doctors like the recently outed Cambridge Analytica.

 

I don't know the truth about what's happening in Syria. It's unlikely to be found in conspiracy theories on Facebook though.

You're right f course Marty and fair play for your comment. I have a lot of disrespect for the Mainstream Media in the UK, as they are all joined at the hip, well, BBC / Sky / Channel 4 are, as they interchange personnel regularly and their narratives are synchronized and virtually identical. ITV news just picks up the bits and runs with the rest. I apologize for my blatant sarcasm. It is very unprofeshnial.

 

As for Facebook, I only post funnies on there which I have stolen from here.

 

Phil.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

It looks as if this disabled American veteran of the Vietnam war, now editing an internet conspiracy blog. . . doesn't have a lot of time for Mr.Trumpy. . .blames him for the chemical attacks as well as the Brits, Germans. . .and a few others.

 

I wonder if there are any grains of truth in this. . .( not optimistic ) this was emailed to me today from a friend who has recently emigrated ( 6 months ago) and lives in the wilds of Colorado. . [.and YES he is as daft as me ]

 

Proof: Intel Drop, Trump, Bolton behind Syria chemical attacks, confirmed - Veterans Today | News - Military Foreign Affairs - VA

 

 

[nomadpete]

Phil, the UK isn't any worse than the colonies (at least Australia) as far as meeja goes. We are mostly fed information from a couple of closed shops here, and they seem to get most of their 'news' by buying second hand sound bites from USA media. I'll risk being flamed here, but our best seems to come from ABC and SBS who at least employ some of their own journos overseas. The commercial news aren't above using CNN video and overdubbing an Australian reader to make it appear that they have gathered the news themselves, or just replaying old archive footage falsely claimed to be 'news as it happens'.

 

Maybe I'm more cynical than you.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Phil, the UK isn't any worse than the colonies (at least Australia) as far as meeja goes. We are mostly fed information from a couple of closed shops here, and they seem to get most of their 'news' by buying second hand sound bites from USA media. I'll risk being flamed here, but our best seems to come from ABC and SBS who at least employ some of their own journos overseas. The commercial news aren't above using CNN video and overdubbing an Australian reader to make it appear that they have gathered the news themselves, or just replaying old archive footage falsely claimed to be 'news as it happens'.

Maybe I'm more cynical than you.

HAHA. . .OK mate,. . . I can't believe the crap and confusion going on at the moment here. . .all the TV and radio stations are awash with the stuff. . . wanting to Nuke Syria,. . Nuke Putin,. . . and the callers to talk radio stations are all swallowing the crap as well. . . . . I like a bit of critical thought. I used to listen to the news and just accept whatever they told me. . . .after a while it became fairly clear that something just wasn't quite right. I have taken the position that you cannot trust the Legacy press / media to tell the truth. I thank my Father for this. .. he was a Freemason ( oooooh ! ) When you start talking to returned servicemen from the army and air force and their stories are completely at odds with what you have been assured is and was happening,. .. you have to wonder,. . . and I started doing this not long after Gulf War number One. I don't go Looking for BS, but there is so much of it nowadays, that it is difficult to ignore. Hard Evidence is very difficult to obtain of course, I accept what ex-service people tell me at face value. But it surprises me that so much of the narrative is regarded as BS by the people who were actually there in various conflicts, and are rather disgruntled about it. Of course, most of them are bound by the OSA, so normally can't relate their tales openly, and only do in quiet corners taking the risk of incarceration. Gee Whizz,. . .I'll bet their stories will be read with interest in 100 years eh ? When all of the barstards in charge will be long gorn. . . assuming that there will be anyone still alive in 100 years to read about it. . . .

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Here is a response to the link I posted last,. . .from the same source,. . .Matey in Colorado. . . . at least he's fair. . . .

 

Not everyone's a fan:

 

We haven’t written about Gordon Duff in a while. He’s the head crank at Veterans Today, a website that says it’s for veterans, but not really. It’s funded by PressTV, the Iranian government media, and lately they’ve gotten cozy with the Russian media – you know, whoever ponies up the dough. Very few veterans write over there – most are Vietnam-era draft dodgers and various academics whose opinions can be found in a thousand other sources.

 

Usually, they’re too busy warning their crank readership about aliens who have taken over the shadow government, but now, there’s a story going around that Gordon wrote about how the US military is always on the “wrong side” of history. I guess that he thinks that we should have been supporting the Communists of North Vietnam instead of the democratic South. But this particular article has been picked up in a number of anti-American websites, including the Democrat Underground.

 

http://thisainthell.us/blog...

 

SO there you have it. . .a balanced view. . . . . .

 

What next Trump ? "I love the smell of napalm in the morning' ?

 

 

[nomadpete]

Back in the 70's we had the same disparity of information during the Vietnam war. (Probably every other war, too).

 

The media was awash with 'Reds under the beds' fearmongering. And that the whole war was the last chance to save us all from communism (but we weren't taken over by communism after USA gave up, were we?). And glorification of our great USA saviours. But afterwards, the few returned servicemen who were prepared to comment, told of the total folly of the conflict, the truths behind the BS media reports, about the real losers in an unwinnable war - the innocent 'non-combatants'.

 

We try to see through the BS but there are so many different stories and so few ways to verify sources.

 

Syria is just a pawn in someone else's cruel game. All those complexities and vested interests are concealed from the public save for some dodgy over simplified BS that we get from MSM. It's not just about which god people want. It's about big money as well.

 

 

[octave]

Back in the 70's we had the same disparity of information during the Vietnam war. (Probably every other war, too).The media was awash with 'Reds under the beds' fearmongering. And that the whole war was the last chance to save us all from communism (but we weren't taken over by communism after USA gave up, were we?). And glorification of our great USA saviours. But afterwards, the few returned servicemen who were prepared to comment, told of the total folly of the conflict, the truths behind the BS media reports, about the real losers in an unwinnable war - the innocent 'non-combatants'.

 

We try to see through the BS but there are so many different stories and so few ways to verify sources.

 

Syria is just a pawn in someone else's cruel game. All those complexities and vested interests are concealed from the public save for some dodgy over simplified BS that we get from MSM. It's not just about which god people want. It's about big money as well.

 

Whilst it is correct that truth tends to be the first casualty of war, I believe all one can do is judge the weight of evidence. The the majority of western governments, as well as most of the worlds media and nongovernment organizations such as Medicines Sans Frontiers, are broadly in agreement. Is it somehow more foolish to accept this version rather than the Putin/ Assad version? Of course, we might be being played The US Europe the media and nongov organizations might be playing us for fools but equally possible is that Putin Assad and a hand full of right-wing bloggers are misrepresenting the truth.

 

My concern here is that skepticism has spilled over into dismissing as false news anything that is not in line with one's beliefs. If we reject the mainstream media it is idiotic to substitute it with even less rigorous reporting (often from some guy's blog) I note that the questions I raised about the meme and the allegations of child actors were not addressed. I also posted a link to a fact check article. Whilst, of course, this source is also open to question, no one did offer a critique. Note, I did not provide any opinion of my own because I have no factual input, anything I say would only be opinion.

 

Just to make it clear, I am totally against outside intervention in Syria other than humanitarian aid (surely whatever is happening only a cold-hearted monster would ignore the suffering of children). It would certainly suit my belief of nonintervention to believe that Putin and Assad are the good guys but my ethical and intellectual side tells me that the truth is important whether or not it supports my opinion or not.

 

PS when did it become fashionable for conservatives to become such unquestioning fanboys of Putin and Russia?

 

 

[willedoo]

Whilst it is correct that truth tends to be the first casualty of war, I believe all one can do is judge the weight of evidence. The the majority of western governments, as well as most of the worlds media and nongovernment organizations such as Medicines Sans Frontiers, are broadly in agreement.

Octave, I'm not having a go at your opinion here but I'm just curious as to which incident you are referring to here. Do you mean all of the above are in broad agreement to to the latest accusations of a chemical attack in Douma?

 

 

[octave]

I suppose I am referring to the title of the thread "Another False Flag attack in Syria to fan the flames of war.." which suggests that Phil is certain that the chemical attack did take place but was carried out by someone to make it look like it was Assad to gain sympathy and action from the west although I do note that he also posts memes that suggest that it did not happen and that the children in the are in fact actors. So not sure which point he is trying to make.

 

I will again assert that the meme that suggests the girl in the photos and videos is not the same girl, for the reasons set out in the fact check link I posted. I still note that no one is prepared to debate the truthfulness of that meme

 

 

[octave]

Octave, I'm not having a go at your opinion here but I'm just curious as to which incident you are referring to here. Do you mean all of the above are in broad agreement to to the latest accusations of a chemical attack in Douma?

 

I would suggest that there is broad agreement amongst these entities about past chemical attacks and it seems this latest alleged attack (for a summary of the broadly agreed facts by the entities I mentioned - Use of chemical weapons in the Syrian Civil War - Wikipedia)

 

But I have very carefully avoided stating an opinion because I do not have first-hand knowledge. My main criticism is that the title of the thread is "Another False Flag attack in Syria to fan the flames of war.." which suggests that Phil is certain that the chemical attack did take place but was carried out by someone to make it look like it was Assad to gain sympathy and action from the west although I do note that he also posts memes that suggest that it did not happen and that the children in the are in fact actors. So not sure which point he is trying to make.

 

I will again assert that the meme that suggests the girl in the photos and videos is not the same girl, for the reasons set out in the fact check link I posted

 

 

[willedoo]

I guess with a thing like this, either the truth will eventually come out in the wash or it will be lost in the fog of war.

 

For what it's worth, here's my two bob's worth.

 

At this stage, no internationally verified evidence has been produced. So far, the world has seen video of wet children.

 

Now hypothetically, if it really did happen it would be a crime scene. Standard procedure in any criminal investigation is to establish who had motive.

 

Assad, who has been on a roll for a long time, had nothing to gain and everything to lose. He has the least motive of all suspects.

 

The rebels, who are losing badly, have nothing to lose and everything to gain. They have the most motive of all players. Trump has just recently announced a desire to pull out of Syria and spoil their game and they don't want that. They also know that a large number of countries are dead against the Assad regime and will gladly grasp at anything the rebels accuse the regime of. They could say he's a transvestite and we'd believe them.

 

Somehow I don't believe the major powers would have had much of a hand in this, regardless whether is is real or fake. The main suspects in my opinion are the rebels wanting to prolong the war with the support of the former.

 

And here's the kicker. The last time this happened, Trumpet launched a heap of cruise missiles from U.S. Navy ships in the Mediterranean. The SAA shot down a few of them with their air defences, but the Russians, despite having S-400 systems based at Latakia, didn't intervene. Today, they have warned the U.S. that if they launch a strike, the Russians will shoot down the missiles and strike the launch site. Launch site means the U.S.S. Donald Cook and others converging in the Mediterranean.

 

So Russia is saying to the U.S., if you launch a response, we will attack U.S. Navy vessels. This would mean war between the U.S. and Russia. My point is this: Russia has claimed that their intelligence has determined it's false. It went public three weeks ago and they have had that time frame to prepare for it. If Assad did it and Russia is covering their tracks, why would Russia be prepared to enter global warfare for something like that.

 

It does point to the theory that the Russians know 100% that it's a fake, and have drawn a line in the sand. Otherwise why would they threaten something that could lead to WW3 and the the destruction of this planet. They're not fools.

 

 

[willedoo]

I would suggest that there is broad agreement amongst these entities about past chemical attacks and it seems this latest alleged attack (for a summary of the broadly agreed facts by the entities I mentioned - Use of chemical weapons in the Syrian Civil War - Wikipedia)

But I have very carefully avoided stating an opinion because I do not have first-hand knowledge. My main criticism is that the title of the thread is "Another False Flag attack in Syria to fan the flames of war.." which suggests that Phil is certain that the chemical attack did take place but was carried out by someone to make it look like it was Assad to gain sympathy and action from the west although I do note that he also posts memes that suggest that it did not happen and that the children in the are in fact actors. So not sure which point he is trying to make.

 

I will again assert that the meme that suggests the girl in the photos and videos is not the same girl, for the reasons set out in the fact check link I posted

Thanks for the update, Octave. I now understand the point you have been making.

 

 

[octave]

Thanks for the update, Octave. I now understand the point you have been making.

Cool no worries, nothing wrong with robust debate

 

 

[nomadpete]

Octave, My point is that I'm not in a position to challenge the veracity of either side's claims about any point of war events. I am not privy to any trusted source. Therefore I remain cynical, and still attempt to gather information from multiple sources in my atteattempt to see some truth.

 

I'm pleased to see the depths of others analysis. Most importantly I definitely cannot trust what MSM says.

 

Generally, my comment is that the average punter isn't motivated to seek information that requires careful analysis. So they (a majority), simply listen to MSM without any critical filtering.

 

 

[nomadpete]

Thank you Willie.

 

I like the thought process there.