The Truth.

[willedoo]

Bill Shorten has promised to set up a truth telling commission. What a great idea, a truth telling commission set up by politicians. No body of people would be more qualified for the job. Don't know about anyone else, but I'm really impressed.

 

 

[Marty_d]

As long as it's only set up by pollies who then get out of the way, it may work.

 

Nelson Mandela's Truth & Reconciliation commission was a successful and intelligent solution to the post-apartheid era in South Africa.

 

 

[facthunter]

Mandela was a bit "special". Not many like him come along. (Unfortunately).. Nev

 

 

[Methusala]

Mystery to me why Bill has such a poor public acceptance. I have listened to him and met him once and he does not strike me as either incompetent nor ingenuous. I suspect that the mass media has a subliminal effect on its audience that affects their perceptions without alerting any defence mechanisms. I'm not saying that I am in love with him but that he is no worse than many others in public life.

 

 

[Yenn]

Bill doesn't always think through what he is proposing, like when he suggested doing away with dividend tax imputation.

 

Surely if he had thought it through he would have seen that all those mums and dads who bought shares to pay for their retirement, would be up in arms about it.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Bill doesn't always think through what he is proposing, like when he suggested doing away with dividend tax imputation.Surely if he had thought it through he would have seen that all those mums and dads who bought shares to pay for their retirement, would be up in arms about it.

If you remove anyone getting any sort of part or full Age Pension from it, it doesn't seem like a bad idea to me. The thought of punters getting a cheque from the tax office when they haven't actually paid any tax that year doesn't really pass the sniff test.

 

 

[facthunter]

And that particular little lurk will grow massively if nothing is done about it, and THAT IS taxpayer's money. Billion's of Dollars of it with NO "taxable income". We are not talking about people in hardship either. Non taxable doesn't mean NO income. Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

The reason that the oldies don't pay tax is that they don't earn enough.

 

The money they get back from tax imputation is tax paid on their behalf by the company.

 

If you want people to pay for their own pension, you have to take money from them only when they have been paid it.

 

 

[facthunter]

They have "superannuation "conditions applying Yenn.. They are far above the 18K threshold, believe me. Superannuation wasn't intended to be a tax haven for the very well off.. Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

The reason that the oldies don't pay tax is that they don't earn enough.The money they get back from tax imputation is tax paid on their behalf by the company.

 

If you want people to pay for their own pension, you have to take money from them only when they have been paid it.

If they're not even getting a concession card, they're doing pretty well. I don't know what the Pension income/assets limits are but I believe you have to be on a pretty good wicket if you can't get anything.

 

 

[facthunter]

Pension is one thing superannuation is another. Your superannuation is included in assets which eventually can cut out the pension. What you can earn before it affect the pension is small also. . It take s great skill and a lot of luck to be able to survive on the pension alone. THAT probably distorts the way things are done. In the UK it's not means tested but I think it's taxed. so If you are well off some would be recovered in tax. in that instance. Tax imputation is not where the company pays the tax on your behalf . It's a scheme to offset double tax and only applies if you are a resident of this country. If the company doesn't make a book profit it pays no tax either, in that particular year so you get NO benefit from shares where imputation credits apply, in that situation. These people are getting the money when they've had to pay no tax It's an aberration that's costing YOU and every other taxpayer MONEY an d growing fast. Turnbull has made a great deal of people's money being stolen. It's not exactly representing the situation honestly. Nothing new there...Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

I didn't put it very well, but the idea was to stop repayment of the tax paid by companies to shareholders unless they were also taxpayers. That means that the rich people who pay tax and own shares would get the imputation money back, but the poor pensioner who doesn't pay tax, because he hasn't the income, will not get anything. A case of tax the poor and give to the rich.

 

 

[facthunter]

It's not understood by many and has grown uncontrolled. Now it's politicised so the truth will be more difficult to find. Nev

 

 

[kgwilson]

In NZ the pension is called "National Superannuation" & everyone over 65 gets it. It is taxed so if you have a good income of around 100k your National Superannuation will be taxed at the top rate of 33%. If you have no other income the tax is either zero or minimal. Seems fair to me. I get NZ National Superannuation & so does my Australian wife as she lived there for 20 years. As I am non resident it is taxed at the top rate. In Australia our assets are too high so we don't qualify for any pension. I prefer the NZ system as I worked hard all my life & paid plenty of tax so reckon getting some back is fair. Here if you have done nothing & bludged of the system all your life you are rewarded with a full pension at 65. Where is the fairness in that.

 

 

[facthunter]

As long as you acknowledge that not EVERYONE who reaches 65 and has no money, has not worked and has bludged all their life, as is often inferred. by those who would cut off all support if they could. To put someone in gaol is 5 times the cost of providing the current pension which you really can't even live on.. Nev

 

 

[red750]

I worked from 16 to 65, with a period of 8 years of on again - off again temp jobs around the age of 46 - 54. Paid tax all the way through. Contributed to a voluntary provident fund before I was retrenched, and because my wife was working, I was not entitled to any unemployment benefits through that 8 years. To assist my wife's income and educate 3 kids, I was obliged to draw down that provident fund. When compulsory super came in in 1993, I was earning a very small amount, so 3% super didn't amount to much. When I got full time employment at 54, it was at a much lower salary than I had prior to being retrenched. The only government handout we received was Child Endowment (now Family Allowance) which went on the kids clothes and footwear. At 65, I was engineered into retirement, with a totally inadequate super fund. My wife's super and mine lasted us 6 years. We have been retired now for 8 years, and are totally reliant on the pension. We scratch and scrape to make each pension day,and dread the mail or phone calls chasing unpaid bills and threats of disconnected services. We live on the cheapest store brand items, and discounts, and shop after 6 pm when meat and bakery items are marked down. We live on the razor's edge the whole time and pray for a miracle. Our health rules out any possibility of looking for work. We are both 73.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Here if you have done nothing & bludged of the system all your life you are rewarded with a full pension at 65. Where is the fairness in that.

Are you saying that in NZ, if you have (through whatever reason) not been employed all your life, when you get to 65 you DON'T get a pension?

 

 

[kgwilson]

No you still get National Superannuation whether you are a pauper or a billionaire. The billionaire pays 33% tax on it & the pauper pays no tax.