Lauren Southern ( Canadian Journalist - Banned from the UK ) reports in Australia.

[storchy neil]

fact yes I have seen photos off this barbaric culture that is against our laws and its in aust neil

 

 

[Marty_d]

so multiculturism means that the cops have a no go area so as the persons of that area are beyond the laws of the so called peasantswhat law of the land don't I get is why that cop stopped a person from going about on aust soil bit like people were not allowed to enter black fella land because if it got out how much crap was going on there the sheeeeeet would hit the fan

 

I now take you to task marty does the barbaric crap of female mutilation happen in aust ?

 

marty when you have poor little children smashing police property and a dumb copper saying there were only about20 25 there for Christ wake up the law coppers can only catch big tough bikes oh I misread that oh sorry princes I wont do it again it didn't happen fake news

 

when you have these so called goody persons and that have a free reighn to build a community that no one is allowed to stop that's bullxxx neil

Take me to task all you want to Neil, the fact remains that you are talking A-grade manure.

 

How many times has female mutilation happened in Australia? It is a criminal act and if someone does it, and gets caught, they will be charged. How is this different from domestic violence, rape and murder against women, done by all cultures including white Australians?

 

As for the African melee which damaged police cars, yes, probably poorly handled. I can't speak to Victorian police procedures in riot situations but it's not a good look. Regardless of the race of the offenders it SEEMS like they should be making arrests then and there.

 

 

[facthunter]

Using black fella cops has achieved some success . They trust them more.. Nev

 

 

[nomadpete]

Marty, the reality is that although, as you say, FGM is against our law, nodody can say how much it is committed, because the victims will very seldom come forward . Because if they do, they risk being killed by their own family members. That is their own (illegal) law. Same applies to the child brides here.

 

As Neil said, there are groups that become above the law because their culture is so tight that our police cannot penetrate their group to get cooperation.

 

Im not asserting that every migrant or visitor is a problem. Of course there are many newcomers who are good reliable folk. But not all are willing to integrate fully into all aspects of our legal and moral system.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Marty, the reality is that although, as you say, FGM is against our law, nodody can say how much it is committed, because the victims will very seldom come forward . Because if they do, they risk being killed by their own family members. That is their own (illegal) law. Same applies to the child brides here.As Neil said, there are groups that become above the law because their culture is so tight that our police cannot penetrate their group to get cooperation.

 

Im not asserting that every migrant or visitor is a problem. Of course there are many newcomers who are good reliable folk. But not all are willing to integrate fully into all aspects of our legal and moral system.

The reality is that many domestic violence victims don't come forward because of fear of death from the abuser too. And there's a hell of a lot more of them.

 

FGM is a truly disgusting practice but not widely practiced even in country of origin. And it's more of a cultural practice than religious. There are 200 million muslims in the country just to the north of us, and I bet all of them would be disgusted at the thought, as would the vast majority of muslims everywhere.

 

It's a straw man argument and doesn't hold up in the light of logic.

 

Of course when you get cultural enclaves that are tight-knit it's hard for police to penetrate them. Which is a good reason to recruit police from those cultures (as Nev said above when it comes to African communities).

 

 

[facthunter]

FGM is practiced by "beauty treatment " fairly minimally qualified practitioners in Australia so girls will make their "Parts" look like those in some porn films. They get persuaded "theirs" are not normal to get them to have a modification done. There's a site showing the variation of what "normal" is which will hopefully dissuade them from seeing the need for surgery.. Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

I'd suggest that if someone is over 18 and volunteers their private parts for trimming, that's entirely up to them. The forced mutilation of little girls is another matter entirely and should be stamped out.

 

 

[facthunter]

It's more ingrained in the "culture" than you might imagine. Not advised in either circumstance I my opinion but it won't be easy. The older generation are very fixed in their attitudes.. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

... The older generation are very fixed in their attitudes.. Nev

Nev I was about to say that applies to all of us, but then had a think..

 

Who would have believed a few short years ago (crickey, I'm sounding like those four bloody Yorkshiremen!)

 

that we'd support same sex marriage, renewable energy...

 

 

[storchy neil]

Take me to task all you want to Neil, the fact remains that you are talking A-grade manure.

 

How many times has female mutilation happened in Australia? It is a criminal act and if someone does it, and gets caught, they will be charged. How is this different from domestic violence, rape and murder against women, done by all cultures including white Australians?

 

As for the African melee which damaged police cars, yes, probably poorly handled. I can't speak to Victorian police procedures in riot situations but it's not a good look. Regardless of the race of the offenders it SEEMS like they should be making arrests then and there.

 

yes marty how many has it happened I know off four cases were the child nearly died I have heard that it is quite high

 

when the coppers have a no go zone until the children are mutilated you that are blind to bloody facts yet quote them when it suits you my taxes are paying for something can be stopped by not bringing them here

 

as for a grade manure is it well stop my post from entering your perfect world princess neil

 

 

[Marty_d]

You happen to know of 4 cases Neil? Hope you did the right thing and reported them to the police. Did you know of these 4 cases yourself or did a bloke who knows a bloke who read it on a website somewhere tell you?

 

Get a grip mate. You're embarrassing yourself. As for the "princess" thing, I don't think a tiara would suit me.

 

 

[nomadpete]

The problem with such imported social problems, such as FGM, is that the group's involved are closed cultural groups that are 'out of bounds' to our police. There is simply no way to ascertain how much it is really carried out. And almost impossible to get an official complaint lodged. Therefore there is simply no way to "stamp it out".

 

 

[Marty_d]

...or to know how prevalent it actually is. So maybe we should get child welfare and safety right overall, instead of getting our panties in a twist about one tiny minority who may contain a miniscule number of people who still practice a barbaric ritual.

 

 

[nomadpete]

That's a real big ask, Marty.

 

Few, if any, folk or either gender, have ever has a satisfactory experience with department of Children's Services.

 

And few children seem to be benefitting from government attempts to serve their interests.

 

BTW, just because you believe FGM is 'miniscule', doesn't mean that we should ignore it. All it takes for evil to prosper, is for good men (or women) to do nothing. I didn't suggest I had answers to the problem of identifying victims, nor of counting them. But the highest level of risk management is to eliminate a risk. It's easy to identify the source of the risk - it is a relatively small number is newcomers that are all of a particular religion. Stop importing people from that group. Or at least spell out to them strongly that this behaviour is unacceptable, is criminal, and will (if discovered), result in revocation of permission to dwell in Australia.

 

Same goes for child marriage, DV, etc.

 

Did we once have the ability to deport 'undesirable' newcomers?

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Fellas, there's a lot of mud-slinging on this thread and we should try and attack the argument, not the person. But a lot of what I am hearing is that Muslims should not be allowed into Australia and some other mud labelled those that have that opinion are small-minded. I am not going to get into the argument... but I think we should set a couple of facts straight..

 

- Someone said should there have been a similar situation as the "lady" presenting a threat to keeping he peace to Jews etc (and I only etc to highlight the point), apparently, there is some British historian that denies the holocaust who as been denied entry to Australia on the same grounds.

 

- Yes, Australia has many perpetrators of domestic violence, rape and other heinous crimes - and yes - individuals will not come forward to report an offence for fear - however, the society/culture would probably do so (with various legal risks removed). The problem is, cultures (of which religion is) rally to support whatever barbaric traditional practice they have to block law-enforcement attempts. BTW - this is not restricted to Muslim communities - let's look at the reported Catholics and harbouring paedophiles; on The Age not so long ago, a West Bank outpost settlement is harbouring an ex headmistress of a Jewish school in Melbourne who indecently assaulted girls at her school (and apparently, with the exception of a few, child abuse is rampant).

 

The point being made by some is that regardless of the sma percentages, there seems to be cultures that come to Australia (or the UK, USA, European countries, etc) that wil rally to preserve their cultural practices which may be illegal in their new country.. and I think this is the real issue.. I am a great believer of immigration, but it comes with conditions and one is where the immgrant's culture (or religion, which is just a cultural belief) comes into conflict with the laws of their new land, they have to accept the laws of their new land and refrain from practising whatever it is that is not lawful in their new land. Unfortunately, and it is by no means limited to Mulsims, this iis often not accepted by immigrants and they close communication to their community - and the proboems persist. Of course, rarely does it spill into the mainstream of their new country.. However, it may, sometimes (there have been reports of young gangs of men from backgrounds of a particualr religion who believe that infidel women can be raped/abused at will perform their unconscionable acts on teenage white girls in Kent, England), and they have to be held accountable - the local press have reported they have been largely ignored - this is not the fault of the immigrant community - it is the fault of the local lw enforementagencies (assumong the reports are true)

 

 

[storchy neil]

yes jerry when some are made aware that some thing is not on their scope and they are blind to facts attack the person that has made them aware that corruption is going on in there back yard

 

like phil pointed out about them white girls in your country I knew 12 months or so ago it got put under the carpet I take a gues it involved to high profile people neil

 

 

[facthunter]

Can you believe anything the PRESS write? Unfortunately I believe you can not, as the way they have gone on has lost them that trust. I don't even read a newspaper these days. Trump of course has taken the FAKE news to extremes. He suggests he's the only one telling the truth . He may end up being charged with obstructing Justice . Nev

 

 

[storchy neil]

nev you are smarter than that to make sutch a statement that you do not read news papers how can you make that comment on trump oh you get it on line do you and they don't tell porkies sorry mate neil

 

 

[facthunter]

I'm very selective what I get on line Neil. I haven't read a newspaper since the mid 70's.. Save trees and your mind. Do the same. Nev

 

 

[octave]

nev you are smarter than that to make sutch a statement that you do not read news papers how can you make that comment on trump oh you get it on line do you and they don't tell porkies sorry mate neil

Just out of interest Neil, which newspapers do you read?

 

 

[nomadpete]

Jerry, thank you for broadening and balancing the discussion.

 

I think you have brought up the most important issue, which is cultural values and cultural shift created by changing demographics. Sorry if it appeared that I was objecting only to one particular group.

 

There are numerous variations of what we loosely call Australian Culture, depending on who you ask. My angle on immigration and its impact on our culture in general is threefold.

 

1 -

 

I don't believe our country can support a high population due to food, water and economic limitations. Therefore high population growth by any means must result in lowering of quality of life for all.

 

2 -

 

Cultural dissent - the more multicultural we are, the higher the probability of cultural or ideological clashes. Sush as the infamous beach riot. I've no issue with genuine cultural enrichment as long as there are no negative impacts on anyone.

 

3 -

 

Risk management. We need to use established risk management processes to address, control, or eliminate the risk of injury or damage by the loopy elements. Luckily most have been avoided, so far. Terrorism is at present a relatively low probability event with a high potential to injure. The fact that so far all attempts have been thwarted does not diminish the risk. We are also importing many deserving refugees who have high risk psychological damage due to the damage done by events that they have escaped from. PTSD is serious, with the potential to have antisocial outcomes. Obviously this is not limited to newcomers, but my point here is that it is easy to import unnecessary additional risks, under the banner of humanitarianism.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Look, there's been some interesting points made, particularly about cultural groups from the other side of the world coming to this wonderful country and fouling it up with their barbaric practices.

 

Pretty much like they did about 230 years ago.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

@nomadpete - no worries - apologies for the typos - combination of my good mate, Wolfie and a an unfamiliar keyboard while on holiday...

 

There was some pollie who came out and said his department calculauted that Aus could support something like twice the population... I am not sure about that,but more efficient use of land/building for housing and a more ecological/renewable energy focus should mean we can house and heat/power more people; more efficitent transport planning should mean we can move them around with not too much more pollution and chaning our habits so we minimise the massive amounts of food waste should mean we can feed them as well. Of course, this is all easier said than done, but the point is, where there's a will, there is a way to mimimise the impact on an increased populatioon.

 

Unforutnately, there will always be clashes in a multicultural society as there will always be those who prey on this and appeal to the less lucid or aliented of their ilk to provide them with the bond the so desperately want. But, I think this would hold true for those of the same culture - family fueds, families that cover up some barbaric practices of their own, the divide between rich and poor and somehow everyone is equal in front of the law - except some are more equal than others; the clergy not only covering up, but seemingly acquiescant to barbaric practices that are illegal - all within the same culture.Seems all cultures have skeletons in their closets.

 

I agree, there is a propesnity to link terrorism to Islam at the moment, and it seems to be coming from there. But, going back to 9/11, I was in Pittsburgh the day after they re-opened the sky and had to remind an airport security worker when he admitted they were only scanning foreigners' bags, that apart from 9/11, every other successful terrorst attack on US soil was committed by US citizend - none that I knew of were of Islamic descent. Therefore, at that point in time, we were statistically more lilkely to fall victim to a terrorist attack perpetrated by a white American than a foreigner - and then asked if for all our safety, could they also start scanning American citizen's bags.. Many "terrorst" attacks are performed by metnally ill (deluded) individuals who will heed any call to arms - the "lone" wolf. This isn't helped by the public rhetoric that seeks to alienate rather than include certain migrant communities. But I take your point on risk assessment - and this is usually done - inf. post-acceptance which is why there is often a statement as to whether or not the perpetrators were known to the authorities.

 

@Marty_d, it is difficult to compare an invasion with lawful immigration; and the periods of time were very different, where "international" law really meant European law, human rights only really applied to the gentrified classes and the doctrine of terra nullius could be applied without review of an international court.

 

To me, the question is do immigration groups - Sudanese and Islamic included, really increase the threat? There have been mass killings before and since (Bourke street), people have been caught up in crossfire of underworld criminals, drug gangs, etc are rampant..It's a genuine question as I don't have the numbers - only press headlines which seem more about serving the interests of the major proprietors than the community.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...Many "terrorst" attacks are performed by metnally ill (deluded) individuals who will heed any call to arms - the "lone" wolf. eview of an international court...- only press headlines which seem more about serving the interests of the major proprietors than the community.

Excellent point, Jerry. It narks me no end that the media has effectively told every untalented nobody that they are guaranteed instant fame, your face on every screen, your name everywhere, your life story told ad nausea...

 

All you have to do is kill and maim a few innocents.

 

Many atrocities could be prevented if the media enforced a strict blackout of all images of perpetrators, their name and background. Just tell us that they were mad cretins.