Homeless and Military spending

[Bruce]

These cold nights, I feel sad for the homeless. That there should be such people in Australia is disgraceful.

 

For less than 1% of our military spending, the 116,000 of them could be provided with individual small cabins where they could lock their door and be protected from the weather and predators.

 

That this has not been done is evidence to me of widespread wickedness.

 

 

[facthunter]

Just a natural consequence of the policy of looking after those who are already well off, because providing assistance is not regarded as the way to do things, by some governments funded by the well off and as Jerry Harvey said helping them has no point to it because they will never spend much (in his stores) . Does that make sense? It's stopped me spending any money in his stores. Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

That's one sort of wickedness Nev, there is a worse sort, which it the bleeding hearts who are apparently able to prevent suitable housing ( small cabins ) from being built because they say the homeless need "proper houses " knowing full well that this will lead to the homeless having nothing.

 

I never thought I would see homeless on display like I do now. I have no memory of it in my younger days.

 

 

[facthunter]

They used to live in tin sheds out in the bush. They were there, but kept out of sight. I got out my early school Photos some years back. No one had shoes. Pre primary. The poverty was probably worse just after the war. We did not have a car, a fridge or a washing machine till I was about 13.. I sold newspapers when I was 11. I thought all that was "normal". Nev

 

 

[willedoo]

At least in days gone by there were less rules and regulations and expectations on people. The homeless could travel as swaggies or settle down in permanent camps. We had a couple of local swaggies who had retired from the road and built permanent humpies near the local dump; all done with scavenged materials. They were visible from the highway but the authorities let them be, as they were harmless and happy. Nowdays they would be arrested and taken away, even tasered if they resisted.

 

The way it is in this country now, god help anyone who hasn't got a good job to take out a lifelong mortgage on a nice squeaky clean, registered approved dwelling. Almost all of this country's pioneers would be lawbreakers under today's laws. In third world countries, at least the peasants can have housing. All they need is the natural materials to build. The authorities realize people need a roof over their head, so they leave them alone.

 

Australia could be in for a big shock. Some predictions put unemployment at up to 40% in the next twenty years, and we could be now seeing just the tip of the iceberg with homelessness. If that happens, our governments will have to be a lot smarter than they have been.

 

 

[facthunter]

In some ways if you are really doing badly you would be better in a third world country. Here you have no middle ground where you can drop down to something that still retains dignity and some lifestyle and even "exist" with some certainty. This is actually not possible here as you say willedoo. They would smash your dwelling and burn your stuff like they were doing in Melbourne when Doyle was there.. Fining beggars for begging. If they could pay a fine they wouldn't need to beg. FFS. Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

And yet we pay out 100 million PER DAY for military spending. Today I did a bit of an informal survey of our gym group. the most common guess at our military spending was 5 million a day.

 

Why is not the real figure trumpeted? could it be an object of shame?

 

 

[Bruce]

And Williedoo, if society continues on the present course, most people will be on welfare and few will have jobs. The aborigines have been like this forever, and it is not so bad. Bugger, I don't know any abos with a Libelle and a Jabiru.

 

But remember the US professor who says we are all about to go extinct ( 10 years) ...so there are other possibilities.

 

 

[storchy neil]

hey bruce easy fixed cut spending on

 

solar by 20 billion

 

aboriginal 10 billion

 

welfare 20 billion

 

hospitals 20 billion

 

foreign aid 40 billion

 

and the list goes on oh dear and that's just a few

 

who would own a rental property these days I had two cost more for up keep and legal fees to get them out no respect for others property

 

my son has one he finally got em out 2000 dollars latter for repairs plus lost rent that they are paying off at twenty dollars a week for the next six months its up for sale now

 

But remember the US professor who says we are all about to go extinct ( 10 years) ...so there are other possibilities.

 

well bruce in that case what a bloody waste off time them wind towers and solar set ups are when no one will be around neil

 

 

[Bruce]

I agree Storchy, but it wouldn't need even one billion to provide a cabin for every homeless. My whole point is that it would be easily affordable to get them out of the rain. Then you could start sorting them out into those who would be safe to upgrade from the ferals who would seek to foul whatever was provided.

 

How awful are our fellow citizens that the homeless are not offered shelter.

 

 

[Bruce]

And while I think that professor is wrong, or at least his timing is too soon, surely the onus of proof should be on those who are seeking to double our population to explain how they are planning to overcome resource depletion, climate change and overpopulation.

 

 

[storchy neil]

bit like me mate down the street whos 38 year old son claim a disability pension who only has only had a job for 4 or 6 years off his life but when his father and I were talking about that he informed us of how to get all the lurks he claims that his taxes should keep him

 

like the persons that are well over tanned driving a two year old Toyota that is in the price range 70 grand living in a housing commission house

 

a few years ago when I gave up work full time I went calling bingo this women played 6 game book x3 for a session cost her 36 dollars for a session four times a week when I was calling

 

I actually seen her in a op shop getting a food voucher cause she could not afford the rent off a commission house

 

bruce what has so called climate change it is a shifting of the weather pattern as all off my working life I have been outside (oh shit except when I left school and got a job delivering telegrams that didn't last long ) all the highs and lows are now coming in over the great aust bite were as twenty years ago they were coming in over the top of perth

 

oh by the way wolworths Monday people are ripping them off coming in with two or three bags doing a full shop and are getting two or three bags for nothing so woolworths are out of pocket

 

resources depletion is a money exercise bit like me mate who owns a sand hill at the moment its worth around 5 to 6 mill when he got it that hill cost 20,000

 

what is under the ground and in places you would not believe is coal gas and other that people don't know about neil

 

 

[Bruce]

I too delivered telegrams storchy. The worst delivery point was to an illegal bookie who had a pack of savage dogs to warn him of police raids. Too bad for the telegram boy who had to deliver all those betting telegrams right to his front door.

 

Dunno why I never thought of giving them dog biscuits, I used to throw stones to keep them at bay.

 

 

[willedoo]

I agree Storchy, but it wouldn't need even one billion to provide a cabin for every homeless. My whole point is that it would be easily affordable to get them out of the rain. Then you could start sorting them out into those who would be safe to upgrade from the ferals who would seek to foul whatever was provided.How awful are our fellow citizens that the homeless are not offered shelter.

Interesting idea, Bruce. Where would the cabins be located. Maybe on former crown land, organised a bit like a caravan park. It would be easier to have a big centre in the city surrounds, but regional areas would be a different story.

 

Bearing in mind, Malcolm in the Middle of a surge in pre election spending has just made a 'Captain's Call' and given 444 billion dollars to a small environmental foundation with a staff of six who never asked for it. What's 444 billion? Chicken feed if you really want to win an election. Corporate tax cuts - no worries. Unemployed, widows, homeless, carers, pensioners, drought stricken cockies needing centrelink support, well bugger off the lot of you. Mob of bludgers interfering with our budget bottom line, that's all they are. How can the government expect to give away hundreds of millions of dollars on a whim of the PM or give the big end of town tax cuts, if they have to give money to needy people. It just doesn't make economic sense.

 

 

[nomadpete]

When you look at a cost/benefit analysis, it is important to first look at whose cost, and whose benefit!

 

 

[Marty_d]

Interesting idea, Bruce. Where would the cabins be located. Maybe on former crown land, organised a bit like a caravan park. It would be easier to have a big centre in the city surrounds, but regional areas would be a different story.

Bearing in mind, Malcolm in the Middle of a surge in pre election spending has just made a 'Captain's Call' and given 444 billion dollars to a small environmental foundation with a staff of six who never asked for it. What's 444 billion? Chicken feed if you really want to win an election. Corporate tax cuts - no worries. Unemployed, widows, homeless, carers, pensioners, drought stricken cockies needing centrelink support, well bugger off the lot of you. Mob of bludgers interfering with our budget bottom line, that's all they are. How can the government expect to give away hundreds of millions of dollars on a whim of the PM or give the big end of town tax cuts, if they have to give money to needy people. It just doesn't make economic sense.

While I agree with your sentiment, it was 444 Million with an M. Almost half a billion.

 

 

[Bruce]

Around here there are several good sites for the cabins. For example there are schools which are no longer used . Their grounds would be great and the buildings themselves could also be used gainfully.

 

As for economic sense, where is the sense in spending billions on completely useless submarines?

 

 

[willedoo]

While I agree with your sentiment, it was 444 Million with an M. Almost half a billion.

Thanks, Marty, that's what I meant. I don't think we own 444 billion.

 

 

[willedoo]

As for economic sense, where is the sense in spending billions on completely useless submarines?

The perceived sensibility is that we have to chase the Boogy Man. He's out there, so we're told. Truth is, we had a real problem in WW2, but since then, we've been shadow boxing and dog whistling.

 

But back to the topic Bruce, old schools is a good idea. A certain amount of infrastructure already in place would be an asset.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

... Jerry Harvey said helping them has no point to it because they will never spend much (in his stores) . Does that make sense? It's stopped me spending any money in his stores. Nev

Hadn't heard that, Nev. He'll never get a quid out of me because of the offensive Harvey Norman ads which get shouted at us.

 

 

[storchy neil]

sorry fellas there aint an airstrip on em school sites

 

oh by the way I suppose its Harvey normans fault that 18 just lost there job near me neil

 

 

[storchy neil]

oh sheet should not have mention airstrip cause hear at shepp local paper there is another push to relocate shepp airport and make it bigger so as the produce from this area can go by airfreight

 

sheet that's going to be one big pipe dream who is going to buy that when you are two hrs away from tulla neil

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

@storchy neil - there must be a lot of hungry little human beings who need their tinned baked beans and spaghetti fresh!

 

Australia's foreign aid budget - $11.5m a day.. A bit of that wouldn't go astray (charity starts at home)..

 

@Bruce - I recall the first time I saw a vagrant in Melbourne - I was about 27... Couldn't believe it; and then there was an explosion of them...

 

While I agree we (and that includes the UK) have to deal with the problem, putting them up in accommodation is only a partial solution; We have to address the root causes.. Mental illness, domestic violence, etc, that often lead to various issues including substance abuse, etc, and of course perpetuate the viscious circle all need to be addressed. We make resources available to trivial pursuits that keep the upper classes smug; but can you imagine the economic value brought to the country by fixing the root causes - less people on the scrap-heap = more people able to work = more income = more demand = more employment = more income = more demand = more employemnt. (Of course, there's a resource depletion issuem but you get the idea).

 

And wirth all those people able to contribute (and effectively contributing), profits will be up, taxes will be up, welfare will be down and there will be more to go around to subsidise the trivial pursuits of the wealthy.. (and hopefully remove landing fees again!)

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

@storchy neil - there must be a lot of hungry little human beings who need their tinned baked beans and spaghetti fresh!

Australia's foreign aid budget - $11.5m a day.. A bit of that wouldn't go astray (charity starts at home)..

 

@Bruce - I recall the first time I saw a vagrant in Melbourne - I was about 27... Couldn't believe it; and then there was an explosion of them...

 

While I agree we (and that includes the UK) have to deal with the problem, putting them up in accommodation is only a partial solution; We have to address the root causes.. Mental illness, domestic violence, etc, that often lead to various issues including substance abuse, etc, and of course perpetuate the viscious circle all need to be addressed. We make resources available to trivial pursuits that keep the upper classes smug; but can you imagine the economic value brought to the country by fixing the root causes - less people on the scrap-heap = more people able to work = more income = more demand = more employment = more income = more demand = more employemnt. (Of course, there's a resource depletion issuem but you get the idea).

 

And wirth all those people able to contribute (and effectively contributing), profits will be up, taxes will be up, welfare will be down and there will be more to go around to subsidise the trivial pursuits of the wealthy.. (and hopefully remove landing fees again!)

Jerry I agree with all of this, except the bit about foreign aid.

 

Australia's foreign aid budget has been cut back repeatedly until we're probably the stingiest of all rich countries when it comes to helping others. The figures are there to see. Most of the aid we do give helps us as much as the recipient nation. If we'd spent a bit more, and more wisely, we might have prevented many problems that have cost us dearly.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Yes, that's the problem with lowering foreign aid. There's always another country with their own ideology and barrow to push, who will step in and contribute if we don't.

 

For all those worried about islamic extremism, perhaps we should be helping other countries with secular (or at least moderate) schooling systems, rather than let Saudi Arabia fund wahabi madrassas.