Here's another one for you to denigrate. . .should you wish to. . .

[Phil Perry]

[MEDIA=twitter]1024049634875006976[/MEDIA]

 

Perhaps there are Some people who just don't deserve to be rescued.

 

 

[gareth lacey]

The writing was on the wall for GB in the sixties ,that's one of the reasons our family left UK, too much immigration from third world countries and GB is still doing it ,we are not one world/country, don't the bleeding heart liberal/greeny people see this ,the world will always be tribal,to a lesser extent in western society, if these other countries want that STAY there and get on with it

 

 

[nomadpete]

No surprise there, Phil.

 

Just a logical outcome of careless 'good Samaritan' acts.

 

You'll have to try harder to keep the forum bubbling along.

 

 

[nomadpete]

Phil, don't take it personally. We aren't trying to denigrate your point of view. I would say that challenging a story is just one step in having constructive debate.

 

You are giving us some great stimulus to examine our own opinions, and debate some really important issues that are (or soon will be) affecting the world we live in.

 

For that, I thank you.

 

 

[Marty_d]

In the spirit of debate, what would it say about our own humanity if we refuse to rescue people just in case they turned out to be a terrorist?

 

 

[willedoo]

Marty, it wouldn't say anything good about our humanity at all. Who knows who will change or be radicalized in the future. Only other option is to rescue nobody. It's just sensationalism.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

In the spirit of debate, what would it say about our own humanity if we refuse to rescue people just in case they turned out to be a terrorist?

Yep. . .I agree. It's a bit of a lottery in that respect.

 

 

[nomadpete]

In the longer term (if we are truly believing the climate change predictions), we will find ourselves in a survival situation. The prediction by respected climate change science is that this country will be flooded with desperate people trying to immigrate to high ground, food and wealth. There may be millions in need of rescue. That is reliably predicted to happen within our lifetime. Consider a world population teetering on starvation combined with rising sea levels.

 

When that happens, will you still be so eager to have an open door to all commers,? What happens to humanitarianism then?

 

It might be sensible to start early by putting some strong borders in place to protect our own families. That is, plan for our own survival. We have often debated on this forum that people should be responsible for their own actions. Maybe that should include removing the expectation that whatever goes wrong in life, someone will be there to save your ass.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Or, we could actually all encourage our governments to actually DO something about climate change. But that doesn't seem to be working - especially given that half of them don't even accept that it's happening.

 

What's it going to come down to with our strong borders though? Machine-gunning asylum seekers? Huge concentration camps in dodgy 3rd countries? If the scenario you mention comes to pass, a stern Border Farce officer in a smart uniform holding his hand up ain't going to stop the climate refugees.

 

There are no good options here. If temperatures rise more than 2 degrees there will be a decrease in everyone's standard of living no matter what happens. We may be faced with the choice of either accepting millions of refugees or becoming, collectively, a nation of murderers.

 

 

[Cosmick]

When 1.3 billion of our neighbors run out of water I suspect the sh1t will hit the fan.

 

There is a third pole on earth, and it's melting quickly

 

 

[nomadpete]

Yes, Marty.

 

It's a tough choice.

 

Are you prepared to offer your children a cup of rice a day if we have to accept global averaging of incomes?

 

 

[nomadpete]

I don't think we become a nation of murderers just because the world changes in such a way that it only supports a fraction of or present population, and we are amongst (hopefully) the lucky few. Nor are the survivors suddenly to be labelled 'murderers'.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Yes, Marty.It's a tough choice.

 

Are you prepared to offer your children a cup of rice a day if we have to accept global averaging of incomes?

Are you kidding me? I can't get them to eat half a cup. Unless you count rice bubbles.

 

I don't think we become a nation of murderers just because the world changes in such a way that it only supports a fraction of or present population, and we are amongst (hopefully) the lucky few. Nor are the survivors suddenly to be labelled 'murderers'.

The point I was making there is if we had millions of climate refugees sailing into our waters, how else would our government stop them? There would be blood shed, the government represents us so therefore we would be culpable.

 

 

[nomadpete]

I am asking the question: if (rather, when) there is this forecast mass 'migration', would our government see it as a threat to national food and water security? I think not.

 

There seems to be a willingness to attack climate change deniers, but the same people who claim to fervently believe the gloomy side of forecast climate change, are keeping their heads firmly in the sand when it comes to doing anything toward protecting their own survival in the face of trusted forecast mass migration resulting from famine, thirst, and seal level rise.

 

That implies that they don't really believe the forecasts.

 

 

[Marty_d]

I can't speak for any other gloom-mongers, but personally I believe we can survive this IF we actually get some action on it. It may well come to mass migration, but if it does, other countries are going to get the bulk of it before we do - which is already what happens. (Our government gives $30 million to a dictator in Cambodia to take a total of 3 refugees - Jordan has taken 1.4 million Syrian refugees.)

 

 

[spacesailor]

The "boat-people"

 

They Do not obay our laws. Or they woulden.t be floating about the ocean.

 

Why are we expected to obay Other countries laws and save them.

 

Tow them to the Sagrso sea.to build a floating havon.

 

spacesailer

 

 

[nomadpete]

It's not about 'gloom mongering', Although it can be difficult to find a 'joyous' perspective.

 

I'm in favour of 'risk mitigation'. Especially when we are reliably informed that there IS a risk. So far nobody is doing anything to mitigate the risks to my (or my family's) survival.

 

And, Marty, as for thinking that our country will be a last choice for mass climate refugees, we already see evidence that many refugees are quite prepared to make the journey by whatever means they can find. They don't all come in leaky boats, either.

 

I believe the number for last year was 350,000 migrants seeking a better life? It does represent the vast bulk of our population growth, in a country whose government does little to provide matching water, food, or other infrastructure for us.

 

 

[Bruce]

Australia will be one of the worst countries for climate change dropping our food supply. We are just too close to the equator.

 

The only advantage we have is a relatively low population. Of course we are giving this advantage away just as fast as we can.

 

I agree with helping people where they currently live but not making some of them like lottery winners by bringing them here.Our centerlink benefits are riches for them.

 

 

[Marty_d]

The "boat-people"They Do not obay our laws. Or they woulden.t be floating about the ocean.

 

Why are we expected to obay Other countries laws and save them.

 

Tow them to the Sagrso sea.to build a floating havon.

 

spacesailer

It's actually not against our laws to be floating about the ocean. It's also not against our laws to come to Australia and seek asylum.

 

I agree with helping people where they currently live but not making some of them like lottery winners by bringing them here.Our centerlink benefits are riches for them.

Our centrelink benefits may be riches if they received it when they were in their old country, but over here, the cost of living means the benefits put them in the poverty line.

 

Luckily, most of them are enterprising buggers who don't mind a bit of hard work, and end up building up businesses and supporting their family. But you won't hear those stories from the Murdoch press.

 

 

[Bruce]

Marty, if ever I am in trouble I would like you to be there, but I disagree about the level of benefits as seen by refugees. There was apparently a sales video (shown by people smugglers to prospective customers ) with images of this family living in a nice house driving a car, all done on welfare, in Canberra. Yep the house and car were cheap, but the man was a millionaire by the standards of what he had been used to.

 

Nearby us there is a house occupied by Sudanese and their next-door neighbor says their total income ( 2 or 3 kids ) is better than $60,000. He reckons that they should not be on so much more than he gets as an ex-taxpaying pensioner.

 

Well this neighbor is of questionable reliability, being a born-again christian, but he does help them with advice I know.

 

Getting back to the video...

 

I have seen a copy of it but of course I wasn't there where it was said to be shown to prospective customers of the people smugglers. The video just shows the housing commission house and this guy and his family coming out and getting into a ten-year-old car and driving off.

 

 

[facthunter]

We are one of the driest continents on earth and are buggering up our water and arable land at a great pace reducing our capacity to feed anybody into the future. 1/2 a cup or real rice would be better than a packet of rice bubbles. We put houses on the best land (and wonder why they get flooded). Few rivers contain water that can be drunk straight from it yet we don't recycle.. Old mine sites leak cyanide and similar heavy metal poisons at many locations considered "clean and Green". Fertiliser runoff to the sea and rivers causes toxic algae. We don't deserve this place as we don't respect it. Dust blows away much of our precious topsoil and much of it is acidic and lacks organic carbon. Weeds and fire ants cane toads and herbicide effect on bees threaten our future but we sail blissfully on worrying about the colour of our new SUV and the neighbours plum tree overhanging our fence and private school fees rising. Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

Damn, Nev, now I'm really gloomy.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Nearby us there is a house occupied by Sudanese and their next-door neighbor says their total income ( 2 or 3 kids ) is better than $60,000. He reckons that they should not be on so much more than he gets as an ex-taxpaying pensioner.

Well, if he takes in their kids then he'll get heaps more than them, given that the pensions are paid at higher rates than Newstart.

 

 

[Yenn]

We hear a lot about climate change and the refugee population, but nothing seems to be done to fix either problem.

 

The refugees are usually driven out of their homelands by warlords, but nothing is done to control those warlords.

 

We are told by expertswhat climate change will do, but it all seems to be pie in the sky.

 

We were told to expect bigger cyclones and more of them. hasn't happened yet.

 

We are told it will be wetter and hotter, also drier, but it seems as if the big problem is earthquakes. Are they part of climate change?

 

Electricity production is supposedly a major part of the cause of climate change and of course everyone is complaining of high power prices. Saving electricity would work two ways in our favour. Do we see government saving electricity? Certainl not around here. More street lights and even street lights at intersections where there are no pedestrians. Just wilful waste.

 

 

[octave]

We were told to expect bigger cyclones and more of them. hasn't happened yet.

In a Warming World, the Storms May Be Fewer But Stronger