Maiden speech

[Yenn]

The media are up in arms again, in a similar way to how they dealt with One Nation founder. This time it is Frazer Anning. I heard snippets of his speech and they didn't sound too bad to me and of course the media were publishing the worst they could find.

 

It is easy to get the full speech on the internet and I have done that.

 

What I can see is that the main parties are making a massive fuss about nothing. I just hope that it blows up in their faces, with commonsense people realising that frazer Anning has a lot of good points. Far more than the politicly correct rubbish that is in government nowadays.

 

 

[facthunter]

Even Pauline condemned It. as well as all other parties., Derrin Hinch etc That's fact not a media created event. Not often all the pollies agree. Must be a conspiracy against the poor fellow ? Nev

 

 

[octave]

I listened to the whole thing and thought it was absolutely pathetic. It was even too far right for Pauline Hanson. The notion that this country should return to the disgraceful "white Australia policy" is unworkable and ridiculous. My friends who are not white are fine people.

 

He has the right to free speech and he has exercised it. The right to free speech also means that others have every right to condemn his speech.

 

My view on this is not fueled by "political correctness" I just think it is irrational and unsophisticated to imagine that Australia would be a better place if we had stuck with "The white Australia" policy I also judge my neighbours (He from Pakistan and she from Afghanistan) by what kind of people they are, how they behave etc not by where they are from or what colour they are.

 

I am an immigrant, I came here in 1964 and although I am the "right" colour at the time we were often told go back to Pommie land. Then, of course, there were Greeks, Italians and then the Asians. It seems to be that the latest arrivals invoke fear in the anxious people.

 

 

[old man emu]

Words that have a similar meaning to "solution"

 

• conclusion
   
  
• consequence
   
  
• decision
   
  
• development
   
  
• outcome
   
  
• product
   
  
• aftereffect
   
  
• aftermath
   
  
• arrangement
   
  
• by-product
   
  
• completion
   
  
• consummation
   
  
• denouement
   
  
• determination
   
  
• end
   
  
• eventuality
   
  
• payoff
   
  
• product
   
  
• repercussion
   
  
• settlement
   
  
• termination
   
  

 

Words that have a similar meaning to "final"

 

• closing
   
  
• concluding
   
  
• eventual
   
  
• ultimate
   
  
• end
   
  
• finishing
   
  
• terminal
   
  

 

So you can see that the phrase "final solution" is a tautology (a phrase or expression in which the same thing is said twice in different words.)

 

Anning is being pursued by the PC Police, when he should have been subjected to the attentions of the

 

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[facthunter]

He was obviously after attention and notoriety, which he certainly has gotten.. He read the whole thing and had months to proof read or check it out. even if he claims to be not highly educated.

 

OME I reckon only a few at the most are the equivalent of solution and a bit more are equivalent of final.. Final and Last can be similar as in call. or warning. Nev

 

 

[kgwilson]

You get people like Anning in the Senate when the system is so stupid it allows someone with only 19 votes to be elevated to a position of such magnitude. Hitler did it with ruthless aggressive power and fear, our system allows it under the guise of democracy. Now with all the media attention he is sure to get all the votes that might have gone to Paulines mob. No wonder she has denounced him.

 

 

[willedoo]

The reality of politics in this country is that we are a two party system like most Western nations and some others. Smaller parties like the Greens, Katter's party, Pauline & Co., Cory Bernadi etc. will never be the governing party in Australia.

 

The Green's attract a vote base of people on policy and ideals. Pauline, Bob and Cory also do to an extent. The latter's main voter base is the protest vote of the disgruntled and that of people who want a return to the past. It's an understandable sentiment, but Australia's changing and it's not possible to turn the clock back as much as some of us would like to.

 

It's only my opinion, but I think that as long as my a*se points to the ground, we will only have either a Labor or Liberal/National Coalition government in this country. The difference the fringe/ protest, or minor vote makes is in preference flow and which of the big two that gets over the line. Populist politics is big in the smaller parties, but if people think they will ever govern, they're dreaming. The elephant in the room is the Senate.

 

This is my advice based on past experience: If you think any minor party is wonderful, check out their Senate vote record, what bills they have voted for or against. There's a lot of surprises there and they have done some good and also screwed a lot of Australians over. Politicians saying feel good things in the media is one thing, but check their voting record on passing legislation. I've seen examples of a small populist party trumpeting the fact that they're the defender of the little Aussie battler and screwing those same people over doing deals with the Government in order to suit their own agenda.

 

So what do you do with the absolute lack of political talent and integrity in this country. The choices are a donkey vote, or a vote for someone you might rate as less worse than the alternatives. It's fortunate that we can joke about politics in this country, otherwise it would be really, really depressing.

 

 

[Marty_d]

He's an absolute disgrace, and so is Katter who thought his speech is "solid gold".

 

As for Hanson who pretended it was too far to the right for her, within hours she called for the same immigration plebiscite that Anning did - so I wouldn't pay too much attention to her protests.

 

This d*ckhead got elected on a whole 19 votes (because another d*ckhead, Malcolm Roberts, got ejected on the section 44 thing) so his opinions on this are not reflective of a large number of Australians.

 

He said this speech purely and simply to get media coverage - because he's a nobody with no policies and nothing to offer of any value.

 

 

[willedoo]

It would be interesting to poll those 19 people on the topic. Crikey, that's a lot of votes.

 

 

[facthunter]

Marty, many seasoned analysts agree with your view. To many of these people, any notoriety is good for you and appeals to the type they want to attract. With senate votes you are generally voting for a party and the party determines the order at which they will be elected depending on total votes gained for the PARTY. For example Corey Bernardi was #1 on the Libs list for SA but walked to form his own party at the time. Whether this is in the spirit of the way things are meant to go is a mute point . The effect of preferences and the complexity and misleading nature of many parties names as well as the LUCK of where they appear on the GIANT paper is another error inducing situation. The question of candidates walking even before they have entered parliament,( or at any time) is a serious matter. After all, in the senate a member no longer available is replaced automatically by the next in line in the party. Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

You may not like what Frazer has said, but there are a lot of people who think it was time it was said.

 

I also came here as a migrant and got the usual jibes about going home, but if you didn't bite you were accepted. I worked with Italians, Greeks and Germans who had no problems integrating, but I cannot see this with a lot of the Muslim people coming here.

 

The short TV pictures, backing up the anti Anning programs showed what looked like Muslim tons, with just about all the women wearing head covering.

 

We are hearing of terrorist attacks, just about daily, somewhere in the world and I do not want them here. Just about all the terrorist attacks in France, The UK and also Australia are done by men with a name something like Mohammed, what does that tell you about their background?.

 

 

[octave]

You may not like what Frazer has said, but there are a lot of people who think it was time it was said.I also came here as a migrant and got the usual jibes about going home, but if you didn't bite you were accepted. I worked with Italians, Greeks and Germans who had no problems integrating, but I cannot see this with a lot of the Muslim people coming here.

 

The short TV pictures, backing up the anti Anning programs showed what looked like Muslim tons, with just about all the women wearing head covering.

 

We are hearing of terrorist attacks, just about daily, somewhere in the world and I do not want them here. Just about all the terrorist attacks in France, The UK and also Australia are done by men with a name something like Mohammed, what does that tell you about their background?.

 

Yenn I lived in an apartment for 6 years (until last year) overlooking the Mosque in Newport Melbourne. Friday was always a busy day in the area. I can honestly say that during those 6 years I did not see one woman dress in the full get up. Relying on some tv footage is problematic, it does not tell the full story.

 

I think we should ensure that people who immigrate are of good character A lot is said about the notion of Australian values although these values are seldom articulated but for me, an important value is judging people on their individual character and behaviour. To put this in a more practical way I like the Muslim family that lives next door they are good people, I do not feel scared or anxious about their presence here and my life would not improve if they left.

 

We can all be classified in many ways, by our ethnic origin, by our religion or lack of it and by gender. None of us feels that we should be judged by the worst members of our group. I am originally a pom but I have never been a whinger all though some are, I am a pilot but I don't endanger members of the public although some do, I am a man and I don't drag women into cars and rape and murder them although some do, I work with young people and I would never interfere or abuse them although some in my profession have.

 

The fear and anxiety that we are being swamped by the latest immigrants is no truer than the past anxieties people expressed about all the other groups that have come here.

 

 

[facthunter]

I would hate to have a situation where the rest of the world would regard what was said as representative of what Australians generally think.. He's after notoriety and he's got it. . I listened to the entire speech as it was delivered. Nothing to do with what line any media might be pushing, as I trust them not. I've been lucky to be an Australian travelling overseas in the past as we were generally very well regarded pretty much everywhere you go. I'm not so sure that would be the case now. Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

You may not like what Frazer has said, but there are a lot of people who think it was time it was said.I also came here as a migrant and got the usual jibes about going home, but if you didn't bite you were accepted. I worked with Italians, Greeks and Germans who had no problems integrating, but I cannot see this with a lot of the Muslim people coming here.

 

The short TV pictures, backing up the anti Anning programs showed what looked like Muslim tons, with just about all the women wearing head covering.

 

We are hearing of terrorist attacks, just about daily, somewhere in the world and I do not want them here. Just about all the terrorist attacks in France, The UK and also Australia are done by men with a name something like Mohammed, what does that tell you about their background?.

What about these blokes?

 

'We feel betrayed': Katter backs anti-immigration stance despite helping local Imam extend visa

 

They're so Australian that even Bob Katter likes them. But they're muslim.

 

Don't judge the lot by the few murderous f*ckwits. I don't go around thinking all catholics are pedo's, despite what a few priests have done.

 

 

[facthunter]

I understand Bob is Lebanese. Can't explain why he supported that speech. Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

I understand Bob is Lebanese. Can't explain why he supported that speech. Nev

I think because every generation that emigrates here thinks they're the last ones who should be let in.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

A vexing question: every comment here has merit.

 

As a nation, what should we do?

 

Continue to welcome Islamic immigrants and hope they integrate?

 

If so, are we happy to allow Islam to grow until it becomes a powerful voice in our nation?

 

Although most Moslem Australians seem to be happy to live in harmony with the wider community, several have made it clear that they plan to convert this country, one way or another. They may be a tiny minority at present, but I suspect they are already costing this country enormously. Our security people seem to have foiled a number of terror plots; the cost of such operations is enormous.

 

Should we continue to welcome people whose guide book instructs them to spread their religion by any means?

 

Yes, I know, the vast majority don't take it that seriously, but a disturbing number of their Australian-raised children set out to murder and maim their innocent fellow citizens.

 

Many in France say it's already too late for their country, but not for us.

 

Having a national conversation about this now may provoke short-term friction and alienating many good Islamic Australian citizens. If we postpone it, we may ultimately have much more pain.

 

 

[Marty_d]

I think the problem is overblown. When you compare it to a real problem, like climate change, it pales into insignificance.

 

Our security services are, as you say, effective in foiling the plots from the bad apples. If we coordinate more with the communities, weed out any mad mullahs who preach jihad, and develop proper de-radicalisation for the youth rather than showy but ineffective hob-nailed boot tactics (yes, Dutton, I'm talking about you) - then we'll be ok.

 

Have a look at the religiosity statistics from censuses over the years. There's a steady trend away from organised religion. With the majority of islamic folk being islamic in name only - like the christians who go to church at easter - as generations go by they'll become more and more "Australian", or "normal", whatever that is.

 

 

[nomadpete]

So Marty, would you like to learn their language and attend their mosque services to find out exactly what line is being preached? Or do you think the 'bad apples' will openly show us by themselves? How do you propose to identify the radicalised youth that you speak of? It was bad enough in our past when our christian churches were often instructing the congregation how to vote. But this has the potential to cause death by violence.

 

 

[Yenn]

I know that it is only a small proportion of the Muslim community that is dangerous, but the religion looks dangerous to me. It preaches converting or even killing those who don't convert. I really don't think that the majority of Muslims are happy with that, but I don't hear any Muslims getting up and saying there should be give and take and to live in peace with others.

 

You cannot argue that most of the terrorism is of non Muslim cause, so why should we welcome more Muslims here. I think we should let refugees into the country and also look after them, especially as most of the problems in the world have been caused by our great ally the USA. We could send them home when their country stabilises, but we don't have to make them Australians until we are sure they are going to assimilate.

 

Bob Katter has been caught by the fact that he is a caring person and has met those Muslims in his own electorate and found them good people, behaving as Aussies do, but he also hears about the problems of Muslims elsewhere.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

... There's a steady trend away from organised religion. With the majority of islamic folk being islamic in name only - like the christians who go to church at easter - as generations go by they'll become more and more "Australian", or "normal", whatever that is.

I used to think/hope that Marty, but trends often make U turns. Too many people seem to have a need to be part of a faith group and are easily manipulated into blind acceptance of increasingly crazy ideas. Just look at how America, that former beacon of freedom and democracy has gone to the dogs.

 

 

[facthunter]

They play the racial card to guarantee a vote from a certain rusted on section of society. It will always get you a senate seat because of the way it works nationally, but the Lower house is another matter. Katter is a lower house rep based in Mount ISA .He must have a good solid personal following in that electorate.

 

. .The contentious SENATOR is devoted to destroying Pauline. She is likewise unimpressed with him so will his senate seat be likely to be available next time an election is held seeing they both are competing for the same turf? He was put there with a small number of PHON votes. No one would have a clue who he is until this speech was made. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

All true Nev, but that doesn't mean what he said has no element of truth.

 

His supporters may counter your argument by saying that Islam is infiltrating our society by taking advantage of the very tolerant, liberal attitudes they plan to eventually stamp out.

 

 

[octave]

I am wondering how such a muslim ban would work in practice. I have mentioned my neighbours previously. One of them from Pakistan and one from Afghanistan with a young child. He works in the meat works (no not halal but where you and I get our meat from). I hear him leaving for work at 6:30 AM. at night he drives for Uber I also hear him going out late at night. His wife looks after their child but also does some translation work. She is worried about how much he works but they are saving for a house. As far as I know, they do not attend any mosque. apparently, during Ramadan, he fasted, not because he is devout but I am thinking more like a cultural affectation (eating an easter egg does not make you a christian) He did not continue as he got a nasty case of the flu. I looked after their toddler for half an hour during an emergency, later she brought me a bottle of wine, she said is this good we don't drink so we don't know. (it was good). She wears a scarf although sometimes when I chat to her outside given how windy it has been her scarf starts to blow off, she usually just takes it off and holds it. So would such a ban deem this family an unacceptable risk to public safety? Should they have been allowed to come here and if not should they be removed?.

 

For many years I worked as a music teacher in Canberra. One of my colleagues was a woman called Azadeh. She was born in Iran although she refers to herself as Persian. Her family we academics in Iran and as intellectuals were in danger. They escaped and were accepted by a European country (not sure which country) Azadeh came to Australia to study (at her own expense) and now has a Phd and is a hardworking and a brilliant professional, I do know that her birth certificate lists her as Muslim although as far as I know, she observes no religion. In her spare time, she does pretty serious mountain climbing. Would a Muslim ban have prevented her living here?

 

It is all very well to propose a Muslim ban but how on earth would it be achieved? What criteria would be required? How do you determine who is a Muslim, do you ask them? Not being a Muslim must surely be easy to fake. My concern is this, once you start going down the road of making laws or rules based on ethnicity or religion or how someone looks it is a slippery slope to an ever-expanding list of people who frighten us.

 

The notion that "they" are somehow colonizing us needs to supported with hard evidence.

 

 

[Marty_d]

So Marty, would you like to learn their language and attend their mosque services to find out exactly what line is being preached? Or do you think the 'bad apples' will openly show us by themselves? How do you propose to identify the radicalised youth that you speak of? It was bad enough in our past when our christian churches were often instructing the congregation how to vote. But this has the potential to cause death by violence.

Peter, I haven't even been able to learn French and German fluently, so Arabic is probably beyond me. However you can't tell me there aren't already muslim undercover policemen doing this work, and if there aren't, then there damn well should be.

 

Identifying radicalised youth is usually done by their family and close friends. My point being, if you threaten to lock up every kid who watched an ISIS video and throw away the key, their family will be less likely to shop them to the authorities. If you offer community-based de-radicalisation programs instead, then you're more likely to prevent this stuff happening in the first place.

 

The vast majority of serious assaults and murders are done by people born in Australia (and I'm not including the kids of muslim immigrants there). Should we boot them all off to another country? The Poms did it in the late 1700's, not sure it impressed the Aborigines that much.

 

A deep breath of fresh air and a bit of thought is what's required here, not knee-jerk reactions to dog-whistling politicians who have no actual policies.