Do the really rich pay their fair share of tax ?

[Bruce]

It is not clear to me if the rich in Australia pay their fair share of tax or not. When I googled this up, the results were unclear.

 

For years, it has been my impression that both sides of politics had been brib#d oops donated to the point where they do the bidding of the super rich.

 

Lately, I'm not so sure... it may be that stupidity rules more than money. Does anybody know?

 

 

[nomadpete]

Tough call.

 

Maybe both are right.

 

Stupidity and greed both rule politics?

 

 

[Marty_d]

The rich don't get rich by giving money away for nothing. If they're donating money to political parties, they're getting something in return. Whether it be a quick fix for an au pair's visa, or smoothing the path for a mine, or even slightly tilting industrial relations in favour of big employers.

 

Most big donations are a matter of public record (I say most, because the cunning buggers manage to get around declaring many of them). Look at who contributes to which party.

 

I have a basic rule of thumb - if the Institute for Public Affairs, the Minerals Council of Australia, and the Business Council of Australia are all unhappy, then things are going well. If they're happy, then woe betide the rest of us.

 

 

[kgwilson]

Simple answer to Bruces question is an emphatic NO. My opinion based on 68 years of seeing them get richer & the rest of us get poorer.

 

 

[facthunter]

It's a no brainer. Justice is out of reach for anyone not well off also. Gina openly stated you should be able to buy your way out of gaol for any crime. So punishment for the poor only. Absolution for the well off. It's never been any different. Bribing works. Money equals power. It's one of the reasons many will kill for it.

 

Rich suburbs contribute to charity less than poor ones . and won't pay the final payment on houses/ additions on the pretext of some "fault". Lawyers are notorious for that. If you don't believe me just ask the "tradies". Go to the garbage tips in the richer suburbs. You will get near new Lawnmowers with just dirt in the carby or a whiskered plug .Nev

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I didn't think you would find any lawnmowers in the tips for the rich - they have gardeners to to their lawn mowing.. .Maybe the lawnmower they own is purely ornamental and is thrown out as so last-season or something...

 

The rich have more money; money is society's way of controlling scarce resources against unlimited wants. By definition, those who have a disproportionately large sum of money control a disproportionately large amount of resources. Therefore, they have a disproportionately high level of control of society as all of society want access to those same resources. We can go on all day about the philosophy of this fundamental model of society, but ultimately if one controls a lot of what other people want, they are in a better bargaining position when things go pear-shaped for them, or when they think the rules are *unfairly biased against them*. If you think Gina is the only one that thinks they should be able to buy their way out of gaol, in Thailand, it is pretty well accepted. The founder of Red Bull is accused of killing a policeman (from memory by knocking him over - so may not have been intentional), but his wealth prevents him from even being investigated - and this is common practice there. Some Bollywood actor apparently intentionally ran over some lower-castes that were inconveniently in his way. The only thing that caused a minor storm, which blew over quickly, was the fact that he publicly questioned their worth as humans.. I was in India at the time and it was morbidly fascinating to watch it play out.

 

Back to the question - do rich people pay their fair share of tax? Well, morally, it is hard to argue they do.. but when did morals ever come into money making.. If they are within the law, then regardless of how little they pay, they are paying their fair share (and some), in their own eyes.

 

I am not sure how the ATO works with respect to big business, but HMRC are famous for cutting deals to big business here which even further reduce the liability they pay even within the law, while everyone else gets slugged for every minor mistake they make. So, at least from this grandstand, some don't even pay their fair share as required by the law.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

The rich don't get rich by giving money away for nothing. If they're donating money to political parties, they're getting something in return. Whether it be a quick fix for an au pair's visa, or smoothing the path for a mine, or even slightly tilting industrial relations in favour of big employers.

Most big donations are a matter of public record (I say most, because the cunning buggers manage to get around declaring many of them). Look at who contributes to which party.

 

I have a basic rule of thumb - if the Institute for Public Affairs, the Minerals Council of Australia, and the Business Council of Australia are all unhappy, then things are going well. If they're happy, then woe betide the rest of us.

If I was super rich, I am sure that I would AVOID paying as much tax as I could. This is NOT the same as Illegally EVADING tax, something I do NOT agree with. I have always paid whatever taxes are due, but then I'm not rich enough to use various AVIODANCE routines which only the Rich appear to have access to.

 

Governments all over the world waste SO MUCH of their tax take from the population on Non manifested Frippery and self agrandisement, so why give them what you can LEGALLY avoid ?

 

Please don't quote MORALITY at me here,. . . NO Government that I know of has much of that in their Tax equations. . .

 

 

[facthunter]

Plenty of mining companies here have never paid any tax although they have been mining long enough to have caused massive environmental damage which they claim they are so poor they argue that they cannot be asked to rectify the damage.. IF it's so unprofitable why are they here at all?. I reckon they are telling big porkies.. One said " it's only dirt before WE dig it up" . They are a breed apart. (generally) Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

The CNGas.

 

Exported at a loss, (on the books). should have been stopped the very first year that they claimed it unprofitable.

 

LPGas is heavier than air so makes explosive pockets, CNG being lighter than air dissipates, up & away.

 

So should have been used for vehicles.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

the "N" is misleading. There's not much NATURAL about CSG. Methane (Marsh Gas) is natural but not nice . Best to be burned. rathe rthan allowed to escape.. Hydrogen from ammonia may be the answer. Nev

 

 

[kgwilson]

There are large fields of natural gas around the world. All of NZs gas is natural gas. During the first energy Crisis in the early 80s I had a Holden HQ Ute & got it converted to run on CNG. There was a government scheme where the installation was heavily subsidised & it cost a fraction of the cost of petrol to run. Most of the petrol stations had CNG fillers. The cylinder sat on the tray behind the cab & was very strong & heavy. The gas was just compressed & not liquid like LPG but it only delivered about 80-90% of the power that Petrol did. The engine ran really clean and the exhaust wasn't full of CO. Range on a tank wasn't that flash either. Once petrol became more abundant & cheap again all the CNG conversions disappeared as did the filling stations.

 

CSG or Coal Seam Gas is extracted by drilling and fracturing (called fracking) the seam underground to release the gas. It is sort of natural but can't be tapped by just drilling a hole & like methane not nice. The problem is that it also allows contamination of ground water and it can escape through other layers underground and contaminate whatever it passes through. The Gas companies deny there is a problem & try and buy off Farmers but there is plenty of evidence that says otherwise.