Climate Change

[willedoo]

There seems to be a few different categories in beliefs on this one. There are those that believe climate change is real and happening, and that it's largely due to human causes. Then there are those that believe it's happening, but it's just a natural cycle and things will come good again. And then there are some who think the whole issue is not happening at all.

 

In times past, I've been a little bit sceptical, but nowdays I'm a bit sceptical about being sceptical. Here's one story I can relate about our recent extreme summers.

 

I've lived on and off at the Sunshine Coast, Queensland, since 1972 until now, and there's one day I've always remembered. It was the summer of 1980 and I was working as a brickie's labourer; just the two of us, me and the brickie. We had a day where the temperature reached 41C with coastal humidity added . It made big news and an old lady in Brisbane died from the heat.

 

The brickie and myself struggled on until after lunch, about 1.00 pm we had to give it away. Apart from the fact we were suffering heat stress, it just wasn't economically good sense to carry on, as bricklaying is all about logistics and production if you want to make a quid.

 

So on the way home, I dropped into the Mooloolabah pub and there was what looked like the entire Sunshine Coast building industry work force there, pissed as a fart. Some had made it as far as 11 am before knocking off, which is about the time the boss and I had first started thinking about it. It was an exceptional day, and I've never forgotten it, for the reason that it was the hottest day in my memory of 40+ years of living there.

 

The point of the story is that for the last few summers, each summer we've had many, many days as hot as that or hotter. We would now have about 20 days like that each summer and they are so common, none rates a 40 year memory as something exceptional.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I am not sure what conspiracy most of the earth's scientist is concocting such that they are mongering a scare campaign of climate change. Clearly nothing has changed in 40 years... all bolleaux - or at least according to the more powerful world leaders who ironically have financial interests in some of the more climate affecting industries (building industry is a massive contributor to greenhouse emissions).

 

I can recall summers in Melb when I was a kid (exactly how long ago that was, I can't remember ;-)) The temperature would build form low 20s to over 40, say over a week and then a crashing thunderstorm would break and the cycle would continue. Last time I lived in Australia (2003 - 2006), the cycles were far longer... When I had to do my last mercy dash in November last year (1.5 days in Aus), the temperature was a benign 15 or 16 degrees one day; 40 the next...

 

 

[Marty_d]

Self interest is a powerful motivator when your richest lobbyists' businesses are threatened.

 

Add to that the perception that the population are not prepared to pay any extra for power or taxes (and it will cost more in the short term, that's inevitable).

 

With all this facing the Trumps, Abbotts and Abetzs of the world, their immediate reaction is to deny the problem exists.

 

The words "standing on the wrong side of history" seem apt when discussing these clowns.

 

 

[facthunter]

Long term Farmer's records are convincing most of them it's happening . We keep breaking records on the high side.It's happening all right and the science is being proven right in the predicted effects.the PPM of CO2 is a measure you cant ignore. Its effect is known. Less than one in 25 scientists involved in climate now disagree. Where else would you get an opinion from you could trust? Andrew Bolt or Alan Jones or some other Mining Industry apologist who is a PAID Mouthpiece acting in self interest like Malcolm Roberts or Hugh Morgan. Rockefeller Family got out of OIL years ago. Exxon are $#!t scared they will get hit with a really BIG bill, (legal action) as they have records showing they are aware of the problem.. (Like the Tobacco Industry was). Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

I am a bit sceptical about just about anything you hear or see in the media. The latest which I heard today is that in Qld we have very high temperatures. I don't know where that came from, but I wouldn't mind betting that Brisbane would be the capital city with the lowest maximum recorded temperature. Our temps are pretty low really, but it is the high humidity which makes them uncomfortable.

 

 

[spacesailor]

I expect ANYONE standing near the bush-fires, would say "IT'S HOT".

 

spacesailor

 

 

[willedoo]

It's about 35 degrees inside the house here today. The northerly is not as hot as I would have expected it to be, but it's blowing a lot of smoke down from the bushfires..

 

 

[nomadpete]

A couple of warmer than normal days do not a climate change make.

 

I noticed that BOM records show that October (November not listed yet) had close to the long term average mean temperatures (Brisbane airport). And the max/min extremes were also not a cause for alarm.

 

But those numbers are short term on the geological clock.

 

It is rather hot but not a "heat wave", which is what the media is calling it. Maybe December to February will be more noteworthy.

 

Having said that doesn't make me a climate change denier. The long term trend is there.

 

 

[facthunter]

Next week you might get a cyclone. The air mass gets hot over the inland desert. Unusual lows have produced an effect where you are getting winds you don't normally experience that have brought the heat from the interior to you.. Lows in the summer are ending up further south than previously same as in the USA they have gone further North.. This is because of the increased heat from the warmer oceans near the equator. causing more moisture to be carried into the atmosphere where it condenses and releases heat (Latent heat of Vaporisation) which is the source of all the power in tropical cyclones and storms..Nev

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

@nomadpete - you are quite right - a few abnormally warm days by itself does not mean anything. Unfortunately, though, the warm days are not by themselves. As you say, there is ongoing average temperature rises - year on year - and the curve has been steepening year on year for about 20 or so years (although flattening last year): Global Temperature | Vital Signs – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet. The sea, which is a global heatsink is seeing mass migrations of species: How warming seas are forcing fish to seek new waters I don't think one can rationally say climate change (or global climate warming) is not happening. So, the next question is why?

 

Some people are advocating humans are causing it and some are advocating it is part of the natural cycle of earth. I think it is probably a combination of both, but humans' energy consumption continuing to greenhouse gases is causing the steepening of the curve - which is starting to hit a rate that nature can't peacefully adapt to. I was listening to a radio program in which it was stated that ice ages used to happen a lot more frequently before ban started cultivation (or at least in the early days of it), which resulted in a slight increase in the average temperature of the earth. So human's affects on the cycle seem not to be a new phenomena. But the effect we are having due to population growth, desire for concentrated and relentless economic growth is tipping the scales.

 

And of course, while the focus is on climate change, we are forgetting the other harmful and polluting effects we are having on the earth - we are now consuming micro-plastics and hormone/steroid treatments fed to livestock that make it into our water.. again too much for earths filtering system to handle.

 

Maybe this is mother nature's last laugh - normally the cycles would wipe out entire species, etc.. We're too smart to not survive the normal events... so let s use that intelligence to wipe ourselves out.

 

 

[spacesailor]

"Some people are advocating humans are causing it and some are advocating it is part of the natural cycle of earth."

 

The last fifty yeas has seen a greater heat increase, From freezing cold, frozen rivers, heaps of snow & bludi CHILBLAINS, on the poor little toes.

 

The middle of England, They tell me now, never saw snow for years, rivers don't freeze, & whats chilblains ?.

 

The first stage of frost-bite, were the skin brakes.

 

BUT it's only the Earth getting back to what it was before the BIG meteor hit 40,million years ago.

 

We just need to stop polluting and deforestation.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[nomadpete]

Good point Jerry.

 

I suspect that there are a lot of big industries that are happy to keep the climate change 'debate' going. Just to keep the public from focussing on all the other pollution that just keeps getting worse. EG years ago the power industry in USA had an expensive attempt to reduce sulphur dioxide (just one of many pollutants). Thats all been forgotten now. We didn't do anything about it in Australia. And it's been a while since I've heard a big protest against pollution in general.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

I am in Somerset at the widest point of an almost peninsula; so the temps average 2 or 3 degrees more than London in the winter.Today is 13 degrees ©.. I wouldn't say warm for the second day of winter - but unseasonably mild. We had snow in London the year before in winter and last year, with the beast from the east, we were snowed in our smallholding (we have it no more). Was great - got the mini toboggans out and the kids had a great time whizzing down our fields.. And when it got sludgy, they made for the road that was icy and screamed down what is a pretty steep hill...

 

Oh - and last winter the daughter did get chilblains (I had never heard of them before)... bluddy uncomfortable for her.. but I would put the lack of it down to two main things - firstly the technology of footwear these days is much better than when we were kids... their feet are far more protected... Secondly, they don't go out as much as when we were kids.

 

 

[willedoo]

Jerry, I spent about four months in London in 1985, the only time I've been to the UK. I got there in July and left the first week of November. It was very mild; I don't recall wearing a jumper, even at night, right through October. It was only the last week there, in early November that it started to get a bit cold.

 

There were fine blue skies most of the time there. The locals told me that that happens only about every twenty years.

 

 

[Litespeed]

Fellas the credible scientists are correct. Climate change by humans is very real and will rapidly change our planets climate systems.

 

For the non scientific, it is easy to understand. Methane is a massive problem in the past we had a few million cows and other belching ruminants, today it is 100's millions.

 

And the big kicker is we have a planet with a carbon cycle which for 100's million years has put away excess carbon in the ground and all was in basic equilibrium. Alas in less than 200 odd years we have dug up that carbon as fuel and burnt it and released what the planet buried. Not very smart- the carbon cycle has crashed way off kilter.

 

We have also cut down most forests that combined with oceans absorb excess carbon. Not only have we dug up and burnt millions of years of carbon but we are removing the planets ability to absorb normal excess carbon.

 

In short we have screwed the very planet we depend upon..

 

This was plain as day when I studied science almost 30 years ago.

 

Suppose you are sick with cancer would you see a oncologist who is a specialist?

 

Would you see a chemical company that makes agent orange?

 

Or just tune in too Alan Jones?

 

Pretty simple really.

 

 

[nomadpete]

Litespeed, you are preaching to the converted.

 

The disappointed, powerless converted.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Litespeed

 

We only dug up the coal, as we had depleted all the accessible wood in our area.

 

From Ireland, through central Europe, to the far east WAS all forest. Only a few million years ago.

 

Doesn't your scientist acknowledge the meteor strike 42 or something million years in our past,

 

After all the Aborigines were here in Australia at that time.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

60,000 years spacey for the Aust Aborigines. 300,000 for homo sapiens and millions for dinasaurs. 6300 years total if you are an " Intelligent design" adherent. All the heavy elements on our earth come from the "beginning of time" sources. (Oldest bodies in the universe. Black holes and such catastrophic events). Hard to comprehend really. Nev

 

 

[nomadpete]

It's much easier to comprehend "All done in six days plus the first public holiday."

 

 

[facthunter]

I often give the story a bit of license as a "day" may be considered a PERIOD in the original language. Ie, I don't take the DAY literally. I can't recall who the original on the spot commentators were. or whether it was done from memory millions of years later. IF you were a successful Prophet back then, when prophets evolved even before evolution, there would be opportunities to Profit from your prophetic proclamations, much the same as now. There is a future in being a prophet. You gotta believe it ..Nev

 

 

[willedoo]

There is a future in being a prophet. You gotta believe it ..Nev

The problem is, the more you prophet, the more they tax you.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Nah, prophets get the religious exemption.

 

 

[nomadpete]

They don't tax profits or prophets who register their club (err, religion)

 

 

[willedoo]

They don't tax profits or prophets who register their club (err, religion)

Pete, is that a typo? I think you mean profits of prophets.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Speaking of climate change, my son pointed out a new search engine. ecosia.org (none of my family are in any way affiliated or benefit).. The apparently plant trees with their profits.. Although they have surpassed 43m trees planted (I am not sure I believe that as it went up by about 100 by the time I finished that bit), they seem to at least be putting back into the environment. Mind you, they will run out of room soon if they keep going.. Though, I suppose trees only last so long in the Simpson Desert.