Don't get me wrong here, But I LIKE Donald Trump.

[red750]

Let him and Vance keep burying themselves.Every time they open their mouth, they turn more voters off. Not a landslide (yet) but slip slipping away.

[Jerry_Atrick]

I was at work a couple of weeks ago and got into a conversation with a normally progressive chap about Trump. Turns out he is a Trumpophile. It was an insight into the what sort of sway Trump can exude onto the disaffected. Every claim be made was able to be debunked with verifiable fact, to which he dismissed as political subterfuge. I had to stop and ask him why only Trump is subjected to it from the judiciary he and his republicans appointed or why a Republican governor of Georgia didn't come out to defend Trump for trying to steal the election.. "Political subterfuge and keeping the political class employed" was all he could answer. "Where's your evidence, apart from someone who is a proven criminal claiming it?" 

 

It is all a gang-up against Trump was all he could claim. This from a man who is normally progressive and debates the facts (I have had many conversations with him in the past). And then he was alleging I was either part of the conspiracy or subservient to it. Again, I asked him for the evidence - but it was only, effectively, that is what Trump, as a victim of all this claims. I kid you not. 

 

I was absolutely flabbergasted, but for some (many) people, Trump  clearly knows which buttons to push. Or, as even Stephen Fry has indicated, that democracy is not achieving its ideals (well, democracy y itself is representative government, sp maybe social progressiveness/liberalism is not achieving its ideals) and people are getting pissed off. 

 

The 4th pillar of power - the press - which is unelected and arbitrary - doesn't help, either. I always get worried when a pollie says their implementing something the people want/have asked for. For the most part, the popular perception is based on what the press report (and often just the headlines or 30 second TV/radio segment - or some social media echo chamber), and, not only not grounded in fact, but often from the antithesis of fact.

 

Pendulum of humanity always swings.. Never stops in the middle.

[rgmwa]

I've often wondered whether Trump says the things he does purely instinctively or has some kind of plan in mind for playing to his audience. In other words is he actually shrewd, cunning, thinking on his feet and always well ahead of the game, or is he fundamentally a fool and just spouting whatever comes into his head, going off in all directions and hoping something lands that he can respond to and exploit further.

[Jerry_Atrick]

My guess is the latter, but in this case, unless you're in the frame, how do you know. Though, call me a conspiracy theorist, but I am sure he has photos of his enemies within the Republican party because surely they wouldn't change stripes because they think he is the only thing that can keep them in power.

[willedoo]

4 hours ago, old man emu said:

I don't think that's correct.

It is. Trump can only do one more term. 22nd Amendment, Section 1:

 

No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.

 

[willedoo]

The only way you can serve as president three times is to be a stand-in for less than two years (a part term) and get  elected for two terms.

[rgmwa]

3 hours ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

My guess is the latter, but in this case, unless you're in the frame, how do you know.

Yes, I think he’s often given credit for a masterstroke that was actually a lucky strike that didn’t land in the bunker this time.

Edited August 2 by rgmwa

[willedoo]

4 hours ago, rgmwa said:

I've often wondered whether Trump says the things he does purely instinctively or has some kind of plan in mind for playing to his audience. In other words is he actually shrewd, cunning, thinking on his feet and always well ahead of the game, or is he fundamentally a fool and just spouting whatever comes into his head, going off in all directions and hoping something lands that he can respond to and exploit further.

I think it's a mix of both. Rat cunning combined with stupidity.

[red750]

Franklin Delano Roosevelt (January 30, 1882 – April 12, 1945), commonly known by his initials FDR, was an American politician who served as the 32nd president of the United States from 1933 until his death in 1945. The longest serving U.S. president, he is the only president to have served more than two terms. His initial two terms were centered on combating the Great Depression, while his third and fourth saw him shift his focus to America's involvement in World War II.

 

Roosevelt won reelection in 1944 but died in 1945 after his physical health seriously and steadily declined during the war years. Historical rankings consistently place him among the three greatest American presidents.

[red750]

The Twenty-second Amendment (Amendment XXII) to the United States Constitution limits the number of times a person can be elected to the office of President of the United States to two terms, and sets additional eligibility conditions for presidents who succeed to the unexpired terms of their predecessors. Congress approved the Twenty-second Amendment on March 21, 1947, and submitted it to the state legislatures for ratification. That process was completed on February 27, 1951, when the requisite 36 of the 48 states had ratified the amendment (neither Alaska nor Hawaii had yet been admitted as states), and its provisions came into force on that date.

 

The amendment prohibits anyone who has been elected president twice from being elected again. Under the amendment, someone who fills an unexpired presidential term lasting more than two years is also prohibited from being elected president more than once. Scholars debate whether the amendment prohibits affected individuals from succeeding to the presidency under any circumstances or whether it applies only to presidential elections. Until the amendment's ratification, the president had not been subject to term limits, but both George Washington and Thomas Jefferson (the first and third presidents) decided not to run for a third term, establishing a two-term tradition. In the 1940 and 1944 presidential elections, Franklin D. Roosevelt became the only president to run for (and win) third and fourth terms, giving rise to concerns about a president serving unlimited terms.

[red750]

Background

The Twenty-second Amendment was a reaction to Franklin D. Roosevelt's election to an unprecedented four terms as president, but presidential term limits had long been debated in American politics. Delegates to the Constitutional Convention of 1787 considered the issue extensively (alongside broader questions, such as who would elect the president, and the president's role). Many, including Alexander Hamilton and James Madison, supported lifetime tenure for presidents, while others favored fixed terms. Virginia's George Mason denounced the life-tenure proposal as tantamount to elective monarchy. An early draft of the U.S. Constitution provided that the president was restricted to one seven-year term. Ultimately, the Framers approved four-year terms with no restriction on how many times a person could be elected president.

 

More details here.

[red750]

[old man emu]

3 hours ago, red750 said:

Congress approved the Twenty-second Amendment on March 21, 1947,

I did have a thought that the two-term rule came in after Roosevelt. The idea must have come from the Democrats, because it wasn't until Eisenhower from 1953 to 1961 that the Republicans were on top. But then, in the post-WWII period and 1950s, I don't think the politics were as nasty as they are today.

[facthunter]

Assassination of Presidents is pretty nasty. So is an armed attack on the Capitol Building. IF Trump gets in there will be no rules. If HE doesn't get IN there will be civil WAR  Murdoch seems OK with that.   Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

Not all Murdochs are OK with it, but the patriarch is wanting to change the rules of the trust so only the chip off the old block can run the empire. 

[facthunter]

He, Rupee, will have to make the others an offer and what do the shareholders think? .(The ones that actually get a dividend) in particular, but ALL should be concerned...      Nev

Edited August 4 by facthunter

[facthunter]

I'd love it if HE saw his Empire crumbling before he dies. He's done a lot of HARM to many decent people. Nev

[rgmwa]

I think the Empire is looking a bit unsteady and likely won’t last very long after his demise. 

[old man emu]

Whichever way the election goes, I fear that the USA will descend into near anarchy. The flow-on effects around the world don't look pleasant. 

[Jerry_Atrick]

The anarchy has started here already https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/riots-protest-police-uk-today-rotherham-bolton-lancaster-weymouth-liverpool-b2590884.html

Edited August 4 by Jerry_Atrick

[nomadpete]

33 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

The anarchy has started here...

But you don't even have a trumpf over there!

[old man emu]

37 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

The anarchy has started here already

I don't see the English matters being related to the political situation in the USA. What's happening in England seems to be the result of of a common frustration being felt all over Western Europe due to the opening of the borders to African and Middle Eastern refugees, and the taxpayers' money that is being directed towards the support of refugees. 

 

The anarchy I fear from the USA election comes from the global economic effects of civil unrest there. Remember how the World suffered because of the meltdown of the USA stock market that resulted in the Great Depression. In 2023 the USA was the largest foreign investor in Australia at 25% of all investment. China only contributes 1.9% to the total.

https://www.dfat.gov.au/trade/trade-and-investment-data-information-and-publications/foreign-investment-statistics/statistics-on-who-invests-in-australia

[Marty_d]

It's all related due to the polarising and coalescing effects of misinformation on social media.

 

There were just as many crazies before, but they didn't know each other and couldn't spread misinformation instantaneously.

 

That's why there's never been a Trump-like figure rise to the top of the heap before.  His "alternate facts" would have no traction in a world without social media.  Fact-checked "real" media would have laughed him out of the race long before he got to the white house.

 

It's also why the rioting is so bad in England - I think it was reported on social media that the arsehole who killed 3 children was an immigrant where he was actually born in England (if I have that right).  

[facthunter]

Misinformation is the root cause of a lot of this discontent.  Nev

[old man emu]

I mentioned a week or so ago that I was reading an novel by Ben Elton, the famous comedy writer of stage, screen and print, entitled " Identity Crisis", the premise of which is that the Public's attitudes were being directed by the issue of misinformation via social media. 

 

The story has many sub-stories, but once resolved it turns out that these sub-stories are being controlled by a single organisation set up by a foreign power to cause disruption. It's a bit like the organisation is the reinsman of a four-in-hand war chariot.

 

What is happening in England, and probably throughout Western Europe, and similarly but from a different angle in the USA. 

 

Elton's book was published in 2019, so it should be available in public libraries. Makes me wonder why it was thrown out by my local library. That's how I got the copy I read. It's a good bedtime read, but the way Elton uses the workings of social media to progress the story is an eye-opener to what social media has done to society.

 

As Marty ays,

1 hour ago, Marty_d said:

It's all related due to the polarising and coalescing effects of misinformation on social media. There were just as many crazies before, but they didn't know each other and couldn't spread misinformation instantaneously.