Don't get me wrong here, But I LIKE Donald Trump.

[Marty_d]

8 hours ago, Asymeo said:

Why many Americans, about 50% of Americans support Trump? because they are disappointed from Democrats for various reasons.

Who paved the way for Trump to be elected as candidate for USA president  and why he has so big popularity? Democrats and Republican establishment. 

Why we blame Trump and not those who pushed Americans to Trump's hug? because we afraid to open our eyes, to see the truth,  to recognize our own mistakes.

is it possible Trump to be so wrong and Americans to vote him? Partly yes if they want to punish the political and economic establishment.

Is it possible that Americans support Trump  not only  because they hate the political and economic establishment but because they see little light in the tunnel, because they hope that something could change, something better is coming? I am sure Trump's supporters found some   indicators in his policies that   if they was realized they could be better.

What are Trump's  main points that attract American supporters? Trump try to attract supporters from the rich and the middle class - poor, I will not speak for the rich every one understand  it but only for  his main policies that attract voters from the middle class and poor.

1. Stop wars that  benefit  other countries  but  exhaust American economy,exhaust Americans . A study from the Congress found that USA entered in more that 400 military activities against foreign countries, The wars in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Ukraine etc have created huge problems to Americans. Many Americans prefer to stop giving  money for foreign countries and care for America, they support Trump.

2. illegal migrants. No one knows   how many illegal migrants are really in USA  but I suppose there are about 12-15 million illegal migrants. We speak for a huge number of illegal workers who take the work from American workers as they work for nothing and employers prefer them, who worsen the working conditions. American workers who can not find work or, afraid that they will lose their job or do not like to work for nothing are against illegal migrants and support Trump.

3. re-industrialize USA. Trump try to convince, press American companies to bring back from overseas their production units, to increase tariffs for foreign  products and support  American industry etc , all those create hopes for Americans that better days are coming   More Mexicans leave USA than migrated to USA, the American dream is dying.

If you ask me if I support Trump my answer is clear, I do not support anyone, simple I do not close my eyes!

 

 

There's a lot in this post.  

Your 3 points are:

1. Wars

2. Immigration

3. Re-industrialisation

While these issues will be important to perhaps even a majority of US citizens, I don't believe that Trump would (or even intends to) solve any of them.

In terms of wars, the one the US has the most involvement in right now is Ukraine.  Trump said he'd end that war in 24 hours if he got elected.  That being a total lie in any case, how could he end the war?  Only 1 way.  Stop providing arms to Ukraine and negotiate a "deal" where Putin gets all the territory he's stolen and Ukraine gets some kind of financial recompense.  Can't see Ukraine going for that even if the arms supply from the US gets turned off.  Europe would step up and provide what the US doesn't.  This also encourages Putin to invade other countries with impunity knowing the US president is in his back pocket.

Immigration.  Trump's "great big wall" which didn't get very far will continue not to get very far.  His attempts at a "muslim ban" and other "policies" last time he was in were overtly racist, unfair and unwarranted.  Not to mention that undocumented immigrants form a huge segment of the services sector, working for miniscule salaries for the very same rich people that Trump is trying to woo.  Can't see them wanting the tap of underpaid labour being turned off.

Re-industrialisation.  While it sounds good in theory, Trump's message is "drill, baby, drill".  He wants to restart coal fired energy and stop all renewables.  This is like investing in VHS when DVD's had been invented, or making more whaling ships to hunt endangered species.  It makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Trump will say anything to get elected and wants to appeal to the worst in everyone.  He supports white supremacists, narcissistic tech billionaires and dictators.  These are his bros.  He cares nothing for American voters.

[nomadpete]

Marty, you missed his point. He was not supporting trumpy, he was highlighting some reasons for so many disillusioned americans supporting trump.

 

For what it's worth, my opinion is that the Dems are overlooking those reasons. They might swing a lot of voters toward their camp if they promised to overhaul the big governmental bureaucracy. That might help to restore faith in government.

[Marty_d]

3 hours ago, nomadpete said:

Marty, you missed his point. He was not supporting trumpy, he was highlighting some reasons for so many disillusioned americans supporting trump.

 

For what it's worth, my opinion is that the Dems are overlooking those reasons. They might swing a lot of voters toward their camp if they promised to overhaul the big governmental bureaucracy. That might help to restore faith in government.

I realise that Peter - and said that these issues would be important to even a majority of US voters.

My point though is that while Trump pretends to care about them, he really doesn't.  Voting for Trump to fix America's problems is like ignoring the oncology clinic and giving your money to a snake-oil salesman to cure your cancer.

[Jerry_Atrick]

Ahh I do like a fellow poster who writes big. But one of the things I also like are assertions backed by facts or at least references that point to them. In the day of the interthingy it is not hard.

 

Firstly, Trump pulled out of the nuclear treaty or JCPOA. You cand find recent info here: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9870/. Sanctions remain and despite Trumos bellicose, sanctions had been and are still in place. In fact by tearing up the deal would have7 made the situation more unstable. Also it dies not affect other WMD. 

 

Whilst Biden has to accept blame for poor decision making on Afghanistan, the decision to withdraw started with Trump making a deal with the Taliban: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/30/us-afghanistan-war-military-pullout-report-biden-trump. 

Blunken pushed for it to redirect resources for countering China and terrorism - you know - as you say redirecting resources for better uses.

 

If you think Trumps strong points are his fiscal management and reining in illegal migrants, guess again because the numbers don't back you up. If you can't be bothered reading the whole article, just check the conclusion where despite technical factors that should have seen him rein in debt, it blew out by over $3.9tn above projected core debt, while delivering tax cuts to the rich and  is exemplary of poor fiscal management: https://manhattan.institute/article/trumps-fiscal-legacy-a-comprehensive-overview-of-spending-taxes-and-deficits

 

 

On border crossings, Biden record is worse, but that doesn't tell the whole story such as Trump getting his puppets, er maga republicans to vote down a bioartisan bill in the house (check out the Washington Post- there's a good article on it)

 

Europeans not In favour of supportive Ukraine? Where did you get that one from - The Russian Times? https://ukandeu.ac.uk/how-strong-is-public-support-for-ukraine-in-europe/

 

Are you seriously asserting the liss if cheap Russian oil and gas is the cause of the rise of the far right?https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lseupr/2024/02/06/the-creeping-ascent-of-the-far-right-in-mainstream-european-politics-and-how-to-stop-it/

 

I live and work in London and travel through Europe for work. My anecdotal observations don't accord with anyone other than some Russian apologists I have met (except one on the Trump thing)

[old man emu]

4 hours ago, Asymeo said:

The majority of Europeans are against the war in Ukraine,

I'd say that the majority are against one side in tht war, and it isn't the mob with the blue and yellow flag. Having been under the hammer and sickle for a few decades, those Central European countries know where the danger to their sovereignty comes from. 

[pmccarthy]

If people just backed the winners the world would be a miserable place. Good people can tell the difference between good and evil, in dictators and regimes, and fight for the good.

[Marty_d]

No one thought Germany could be defeated in WWII either.  Now we have a very similar dictator in Russia.

[Jerry_Atrick]

10 hours ago, Asymeo said:

ignore totally what European governments or some journalists say about the war in Ukraine but I am interested  very much what European people say about the war in Ukraine, It seems you line  with European governments, with warmongers, I line with European people.

It is the polls   that show  what people want.

At Begin

I thought you would say that which is why I referenced a poll analysis rather than a pole. 

 

10 hours ago, Asymeo said:

At Begin almost all Europeans supported Ukraine but slowly-slowly this support gone! A

If you can point us to polls across Europe that support your assertion, it would give your argument a little more credibility..

 

10 hours ago, Asymeo said:

A small number of Europeans believe that Ukraine could win the war against Russia. , at the begin of this year only around 10%! of Europeans believed that Ukraine could win the war. GOOGLE ABOUT IT!

That is very different to those who support Ukraine and support continuing supplying Ukraine with the hardware to give them a sporting chance

 

10 hours ago, Asymeo said:

Same problem we had with the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan etc and we show the results.

Very different circumstances and very different drivers.. but I (and many) agree that (and others you mention below) was a complete travesty

 

1 hour ago, Asymeo said:

is very late for Western propaganda machine to convince international community  that they are right, even many if not most Westerners can not believe that  Western elites  say the truth,  are honest, that they are good

Agree.. but the same can be said about Rusdia, China and many others.. Although the end of the day it is the lesser of the two evils, and I would take as close to a true democracy over a further one any day

 

Even benevolent dictators eventually are replaced with brutal ones and the only Windows I want to crash are those made by Microsoft

 

When you can start providing data/references to support your assertions on public opinion and support or lack thereof for Ukraine, them I will engage, otherwise there's enough crap to point to trolling or Russian apologists 

 

 

 

 

 

[Marty_d]

You've cherry picked one figure out of those 3 charts and it's heavily affected by Republican leaning opinions.

Another way to look at it is to say that among Democrats, 38% in March 22 considered the US was NOT providing enough support to Ukraine, and while this fell to 19% in June 23, it's back up to 36% in April 24.

 

[facthunter]

America joins wars when there's money to be made and tend to be isolationist as they've never been big in knowledge of other countries.  Nev

[facthunter]

An exercise in putting people in BOXES. My FACTS are from records . This discussion is pointless. Nev

[willedoo]

It's going by the playbook.

[Marty_d]

41 minutes ago, Asymeo said:

 I speak  for Americans and write for Americans, you speak for Americans and write for Democrats,

You are right   for democrats, democrat the fall was  only 2% but In total, for all Americans fell 18%!  Who cherry pick?

Look at the charts.  Started out at 74% support for Ukraine overall (72% Republican, 77% Democrat).  So a large majority of people in the US supported Ukraine as at March 22.  

Since then, probably due to the malign influence of Trump on the GOP, Republican support has fallen quarter by quarter until plateauing in June 23 at around 33-34%.  On the other hand in the Democrat side it plateaued at 63% for 3 quarters Jan-Nov 23, then has risen to 67% in April 24.

Factor in historical trends in the US.  The Republicans have traditionally been the hardest anti-Russia, anti-communist party.  Now they're willing to let Russia invade their neighbours?  Ask yourself why.

[facthunter]

I'll give you a clue. There's MONEY in it.  Nev

[old man emu]

38 minutes ago, facthunter said:

I'll give you a clue. There's MONEY in it.  Nev

That Trumps all other explanations.

[Jerry_Atrick]

[kgwilson]

Asymeo, You are entitled to your opinion on such things, however the above issues are not that relevant to the subject of this thread.

 

To address all readers as "You" is disingenuous when that word relates to different countries or governments in the context of your post. Much of your commentary is also not backed by verifiable fact. Breaking the monologue in to paragraphs would be a good start.

Edited August 22 by kgwilson

[pmccarthy]

I am now persuaded that Asymeo is a Russian bot and will ignore it.

[facthunter]

.  Russia wants Trump IN . THAT nobody would deny.  USA is Psycho about communists.  Remember the McCarthy Purge. There, All Lefties are communists. ALL you have to do  to be so Labelled is provide poor kids a basic breakfast at School.   The Obsession with personal  Assault weapons is a symptom of the deep down Malaise in Society.. Putin and North  Korea's "Little Rocket Man" are MATES of TRUMP and Don't have Democracies.. Like what Trump will want USA to be with HIM Da  God -King.  Nev

[old man emu]

OK. Now I'll ban him.

[red750]

[facthunter]

I'll take 10 of them, Thanks.  Nev

[onetrack]

Now Trump is going full-bore moron, by holding a gala event at Trumps Golf Club in Bedminster, for the Jan 6 rioters. Keeping up his lying BS about "stolen 2020 election" and heaping endless praise on his MAGA criminal followers who attacked the Capitol building, who were jailed for their criminality.

But Trump still insists they were all "heroes", and they'll all be released once he becomes President again. Talk about handing the election to the Dems on a plate!

Kamala doesn't have to do too much to get elected, Trump continues to dig himself deeper and deeper into his moronic tirades hole, and even pissing off huge numbers of GOP pollies.

 

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/oh-perfect-a-january-6-awards-gala-at-trumps-golf-club-in-bedminster/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=homepage&utm_campaign=right-rail&utm_content=corner&utm_term=third

[facthunter]

Trump has trashed the GOP and they are weak as piss anyhow and deserve it. Nev

[willedoo]

Now there's another big reason to keep Trump out. Kennedy has jumped ship after Trump offered him a position in his administration. Maybe the idea of Trump's advisors was that RFK jr is so cray it would make Trump look sane in comparison.