Don't get me wrong here, But I LIKE Donald Trump.

[rgmwa]

7 minutes ago, old man emu said:

But does he still own Trump Tower? Wasn't it confiscated to meet fines set by another court? Maybe those were the fines that he milked his disciples for the money.

He posted his $175m bond and has appealed so nothing happens to his properties until the appeal is resolved. 

[spenaroo]

and yet I suspect nothing will change...
he will drag the appeal on for years.

 

already trying to get them to change the law so any charges against a former president are federal charges....
(so they can be dismissed by the chosen department of justice, or pardoned)

 

its just theater at this point

[facthunter]

HE doesn't appeal to me. I wonder what grounds he would be allowed to appeal on.? HE never takes his Lawyers advice anyhow.. No standards apply to "special" Donny .   Nev

[old man emu]

Guess what! Convicted persons in the USA lose the right to vote. 

 

What would be absolute Hell for his MAGA devotees is that he can't own a gun, either.

[Marty_d]

They don't make guns for hands that small anyway.

[old man emu]

[Marty_d]

I stand corrected.

 

That pistol bears some similarities to Stormy's testimony too.

[spenaroo]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

HE doesn't appeal to me. I wonder what grounds he would be allowed to appeal on.? HE never takes his Lawyers advice anyhow.. No standards apply to "special" Donny .   Nev

been talking to a lawyer friend in the USA about it,

apparently the Judge gave some improper Jury directions and let in some stuff that shouldn't have been.

 

she is pretty certain it will be reversed on appeal and remanded for a new trial, which will occur after November....

[old man emu]

Historical fact.

Small firearms like that are known as "derringers". Mr Derringer was the man who made lots of money from making these small firearms. The guns come under a general name, just like we call a vacuum cleaner a Hoover, or searching the internet is known as googling. There were very many manufacturers of these small weapons.

[rgmwa]

1 hour ago, spenaroo said:

been talking to a lawyer friend in the USA about it,

apparently the Judge gave some improper Jury directions and let in some stuff that shouldn't have been.

 

she is pretty certain it will be reversed on appeal and remanded for a new trial, which will occur after November....

What improper instructions did he give?

[old man emu]

4 minutes ago, rgmwa said:

she is pretty certain it will be reversed on appeal and remanded for a new trial, which will occur after November....

That's pretty MAGAnamous of her.

 

The Judge is being praised for upholding the best traditions of service to Justice.

[willedoo]

2 hours ago, Marty_d said:

I stand corrected.

 

That pistol bears some similarities to Stormy's testimony too.

It's the little ones that go off half cocked.

[willedoo]

3 hours ago, old man emu said:

But does he still own Trump Tower?

Yes and no. The Trump organisation manages the tower and owns the retail and commercial part. Trump owns an apartment as well. The hotel units are owned by General Electric Pension Trust and Galbreath & Company.

 

4 hours ago, old man emu said:

The options are:

1. Probation
2. House arrest
3. Incarceration.

I read where community service is another option.

[Marty_d]

A vow of silence and solitude would be the biggest community service he could do.

 

[old man emu]

55 minutes ago, willedoo said:

I read where community service is another option.

Those are the three options that the retired prosecutor I have been following has offered up as sentencing options. That person, who has always presented his information in an unbiased way, has not mentioned community service. However, can you imagine the security difficulties involved in sending him out to pick up rubbish in a park?

[Marty_d]

They usually try to match the type of community service to the criminal's skills.

 

So..............

 

Nah I got nothing.  Picking up rubbish it is.

[facthunter]

There's NO  shortage of gun owners who would make their services available but he calls servicemen "suckers and Losers"??.   Nev

[facthunter]

Found that one hadn't posted. Hope it still makes sense.

  Trump would just grab what grabs him, right?   Nev

[Jerry_Atrick]

I see his supporters, the MAGA cult have vowed violence and retribution for the verdict. That is what I love about ideological nutjobs, whichever way they are bent; something doesn't go their way and they can't rationally put an argument for their way or accept that is the law that they swear to uphold, but have to the ultimate of the thing that the right wing ideology is avowed against - cancel culture. This never seems to be reported.

 

Also, the house speaker has come out and not only criticised, but condemned the verdict and alleged it has been politically biased, etc. No one seems to be reporting the affront this is to any constitutional democracy; the courts are one of the three pillars of a constitutional democracy - and act as a check and balance on abuses of legislative and executive powers.. It is a long held convention that the courts decisions are not politically criticised.. asserting an error of law is one thing, but a political attack is wholly different as it may sway future decisions or any decision on appeal. 

 

There is no doubt he will lodge an appeal. I am guessing this will go all the way to SCOTUS (assuming the US federal courts have the same ultimate jurisdiction as the Aus federal courts).  @spenaroo - would be interesting to know what the potential misdirection/S to the jury was/were. 

 

Normally, in commonwealth derived jurisdictions, an appeal from an already higher court in the hierarchy is lodged, and especially when there has been a trial by jury, the grounds are limited to either an incorrect application of the law (misdirection) or a manifestly absurd decision on the evidence - the latter is rarely granted but usually when they are, it is because of some alleged bias based on the celebrity of the appellant. It can also be heard based on the importance of the case - and on the latter two, Trump is likely to be granted leave to appeal. My understanding is, even in NY law, an appeal does not allow the introduction of new evidence and is usually composed of legal argument; even in the case of a manifestly absurd result being the grounds for appeal, the appeal will be around the application of the law to the facts and not the facts are in dispute. 

 

3 hours ago, spenaroo said:

apparently the Judge gave some improper Jury directions and let in some stuff that shouldn't have been.

My bold.. The grounds for appeal on this would be dependent on how that stuff was let in. If objections to the subject matter were raised by the defence and they were overruled, then there may be grounds for appeal; however, the judge, in his summing up, stated that the defence did not avail themselves of objections to testimony where he would have been prepared to sustain those objections (apparently some of the Stormy Daniels testimony was cringeworthy and not relevant; and I am sure some of Cohen's would have been, too). An an adversarial system, of which NY is, It is not the role of the judge to proactively determine what is and what is not admissible or relevant - it is up to the adversaries to bring such stuff to the notice of the judge and then he will decide - except in extenuating circumstances which, surprise, surprise, occurred in that trial which required the judge to proactively intervene during the  Stormy Daniels testimony. 

 

Of course, in the lower courts such as the magistrates/local courts, the magistrate/judge takes a more proactive role. 

[old man emu]

46 minutes ago, Jerry_Atrick said:

 quoting spenaroo, apparently the Judge gave some improper Jury directions and let in some stuff that shouldn't have been.

The verdict in in, but the dust hasn't settled on the trial. Things have to go step by step.

 

The next step is the sentencing.

Why is that being delayed for several weeks? Simply to follow standard practice. What will be prepared in those weeks is a Pre-Sentence Report, which is an in depth report on the character, including prior criminal history, social circumstances, mental health and even physical health. The information in that report helps the judge determine a sentence which meets the needs of Justice and at the same time is not onerous, cruel or unusual for the convicted person.

 

The process involves a lot of investigation and once the preliminary report is prepared it is given to both sides for review and correction of any errors. Once both sides have made their comments on it, a final report is prepared and given to the judge who uses it, along with other Judges Sentencing guidelines to determine a sentence that is appropriate to the crime and to the convict. Then everyone gathers in the courtroom for the boom to drop.

 

The judge can order immediate detention, or set a date for the convict to surrender. Immediate detention is usual murders and drug matters, but white convicts are, unfairly, given time , "to arrange their affairs". You'd think that the five or so weeks between verdict and sentencing would be ample time.

 

Then we go into the seemingly never-ending appeals process, which is 100-1 on what will happen.

First there is the Appellate division which will consider claims of improper actions by the judge. The truth or otherwise of the facts presented in the case will not be considered, unless the appeal relates to evidence which should or should not have been introduced. It is said that some of Stormy's more vivid testimony might fall into that category.

 

Once again it's 100-1 on that Trump will appeal any decision the Appellate Division makes that goes against him, so it's off to the New York State Court of Appeals. The court of appeals is New York State's highest court and court of last resort with appellate jurisdiction only. It hears cases on appeal from the appellate division and from trial courts in capital cases. Its review is generally limited to questions of law; in capital cases it may rule on both law and fact.

 

Since Trump has been charged with an offence that is against New York State law, he can't go to the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) which is a Federal court dealing with crimes against the Federal law.

 

The question remains if the judge orders immediate incarceration, or allow release pending the conclusion of the appeals process. If the judge locks him up, I'm sure that Trump will be released by teh Appellate court.

 

[red750]

[Jerry_Atrick]

Firstly, the crime is one in which custodial sentences are rare. You can argue that 34 counts makes it immediately serious enough (ie, her serially did it, and it was not a one or two-off); but ultimately it is about falsifying business records for one sordid transaction. He is unlikely to be given a custodial sentence for many reasons, including the court and DAs offices' staff health and well being. 

7 hours ago, old man emu said:

Since Trump has been charged with an offence that is against New York State law, he can't go to the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) which is a Federal court dealing with crimes against the Federal law.

 

Like Australia's High Court, the Supreme Court of the USA has the power to hear appeals from state criminal cases, and it is reserved for unusual  circumstances: https://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/types-cases/appeals#:~:text=A litigant who loses in,not have to grant review.

 

I feel that Trump will get a writ of certiorari in the SCOTUS, (the write is also available in Australia for state criminal appeals to the high court) .. Judge Clarence Thomas will almost definitely accede to such a request.... IMHO

Edited May 31 by Jerry_Atrick

[nomadpete]

This thread is "...I like Donald Trump "

 

The guardian reports that some very important people like Don:-

 

"Kremlin spokesman decries ‘elimination … of political rivals’ while Hungarian prime minister calls Trump ‘a man of honour’ "

 

If that doesn't ring a bell (as opposed to the usual dogwhistle) to MAGA enthusiasts, nothing will.

[willedoo]

15 minutes ago, nomadpete said:

The guardian reports that some very important people like Don:-

 

"Kremlin spokesman decries ‘elimination … of political rivals’ while Hungarian prime minister calls Trump ‘a man of honour’ "

 

If that doesn't ring a bell (as opposed to the usual dogwhistle) to MAGA enthusiasts, nothing will.

I don't think it bothers MAGA supporters that Donald's best buddies are putler and putler's Hungarian butt plug. On Youtube there's a lot of street interviews of Trump supporters and like good little cult members, they love whatever their orange god loves. Support for putler is high among Donald's devotees.

[facthunter]

Haven't heard of any volunteering to go to Russia and fight..  Nev