Hospital wait times

[Bruce]

In Adelaide, there have been ambulances "ramped" for many hours because they can't unload their patients into an overloaded emergency ward.

 

In Darwin, this guy waited 3 days with a mangled leg. All this in the last few weeks.

 

The reason is obvious, and that is because they only use specialists for lots of things, and there is an extreme shortage of specialists.

 

Many of the waiting patients could be fixed by nurses, or lesser qualified doctors, but this may expose the hospital to litigation.

 

A totally insane system, say I. The specialist shortage is completely contrived and has the effect of keeping their incomes above 3 million a year.

 

But why is the legal system unable to understand the idea of "least worst"? Are they stupid or evil or what ? And what of the pollies? Blame them too, say I.

 

 

[old man emu]

A&E overload is the same all over the country, and elsewhere.

 

Doctors have set up a privilege system modeled on the legal system. Not so much "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours," as "you sue him, I'll defend him, and we'll both laugh all the way to the bank."

 

 

[facthunter]

Patients must be more patient then. Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

The guy with the leg mangled by the boat prop actually got angry and started complaining to everybody.

 

I would offer them the choice of waiting for the specialist or signing a disclaimer and getting fixed by a lesser mortal. I bet some of those lesser mortals would do a better job sometimes.

 

 

[spacesailor]

I'm on the "Hip replacement List", now Only 363 days to go.LoL

 

Hoping it's much sooner, as I've taken to using the "shopping-centres" Mobility scooter, Feel a little bit of a twat, following the wife, so I don't run some-one over.

 

Any one able to get those Li-Fe batteries cheaper than retail ? 12 volt 30 to 40 AH. Need two for Mums old scooter.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Bruce]

Wow space, that 363 days is just the same time as a mate was told it would take to see a neurologist about his CJD.

 

The main problem is that you only live about 6 months with CJD. My mate was tough and he lived 9 months.

 

He got to see a neurologist sooner by turning up at casualty.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

In Adelaide, there have been ambulances "ramped" for many hours because they can't unload their patients into an overloaded emergency ward.In Darwin, this guy waited 3 days with a mangled leg. All this in the last few weeks.

 

The reason is obvious, and that is because they only use specialists for lots of things, and there is an extreme shortage of specialists.

 

Many of the waiting patients could be fixed by nurses, or lesser qualified doctors, but this may expose the hospital to litigation.

 

A totally insane system, say I. The specialist shortage is completely contrived and has the effect of keeping their incomes above 3 million a year.

 

But why is the legal system unable to understand the idea of "least worst"? Are they stupid or evil or what ? And what of the pollies? Blame them too, say I.

 

There IS a way to fix this problem, if only the PTB would take it up. . this is to take out all the ambulance chasing Law firms, and shoot all the bosses. Simple.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

I have an annoying problem with both eyes. The eyes feel 'Sticky' all the time, and I wake up with them seemingly filled with a gritty substance which can only be removed with a flannel in warm water. I'm still suffering with slightly blurred vision in one eye, fortunately not my dominant one. otherwise I'd ont be able to drive.

 

It started around 3 weeks back, and I was told that the local GP Surgery ( NHS ) had no appointments available for FOUR weeks. . so I went to see an Optician, after seeing a leaflet at the local surgery which purported to treat 'Minor Eye Problems'

 

The chap had a look at both eyes and then prescribed some treatments. 1) some goo in a tube to apply under both eyelids. 2) Some drops sealed in tiny plastic ampoules. 3) A box of antiseptic Wipes sealed in individual single use packets. The goo was useless, it made me effectively blind for 8 hours until it was washed away with eyewash from the local supermarket. . The 'Drops' were identified by a neighbour as being standard for those wearing contact lenses, to be used just prior to inserting same. No active ingredient to treat the actual problem. . . The Antiseptic Wipes are OK but I've only got 5 left.

 

This lot cost £48.00. I don't usually pay for prescriptions as I'm over 65, but apparently this didn't apply at a private Opticians. . .Fair enough but it didn't work.

 

Rang the surgery for an appointment and got quoted SIX weeks. NOW this is just for a referral to an Eye hospital, as our surgery has NO occulists at all. So it's a 2 minute job to do this . ..

 

If I front up at the nearest Eye hospital, they won't see me without a referral from my GP surgery unless I have an arrow sticking in my eye. . . .catch 22. .

 

What a load of Bollox. . .

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Our small local hospital has had difficulty attracting doctors for years. We've had several medicos from developing countries who have earned a loyal following from our crusty old patients. One advantage is that doctors from poorer countries often have a wider range of expertise than your average Aussie GP. This came out when my old mate badly gashed his leg, a couple of days before he was due to take his wife on a world cruise. He was told he'd have to travel far for specialist treatment.

 

Our experienced doc. from South Asia opened our long-closed operating theatre and did an impressive job of patching him up. He was able to go on his big trip.

 

 

[storchy neil]

well what in the hell do you want 25 million people you want to be at the front of the cue STOP the refugee intake now neil

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Neil quite a lot of those refugees have skills that Oz is in great need of. Many of our best doctors, scientists, engineers, etc came here as refugees. Some of my ancestors (and probably yours) could also have been classed as refugees.

 

 

[spacesailor]

"Neil quite a lot of those refugees have skills that Oz is in great need of"

 

Problem is that most immigrants have to go back to school to get Aussie qualifications.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Phil, I think you have a case of Sandy Blight. It is caused by travelling around in outback Australia. I haven’t heard of a case of delayed action Sandy Blight before, so you might make medical history.

 

 

[spacesailor]

NOO!

 

It's that Aussie orange dust, blowing in the Wind.

 

Every day have to use the "window washers" on the car.

 

Now to put in another "Rain-diverter" to keep the washer bottle full, ALL the Rain divers are Working & nothing came out of the "street drain". None of my rain will help the Darling, IT just Pollutes the Harbour..

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Bruce]

Thousands of Australian straight "A" students were denied a place in medical school by order of the federal government of the day, both Labor and Liberal did this. The reason was to try and limit the medicare payments by limiting the number of doctors.

 

They sure were stupid, and they applied the rule so stupidly that regional places could only get a doctor from the third world. Some were ok, some were dr deaths like the one in Bundaberg.( I bet none of them could have even got into medicine as students if they sat for year 12 exams and used an anglo name)

 

Then some smart person realized that you don't need to limit the number of doctors, you only need to limit the number of medicare provider tickets. They still haven't figured out to make these geographically based and solve the regional problem.

 

I dunno how hard it is for a school-leaver to get into medicine these days. There was a time ( when I was a school-leaver ) when it was easy. This changed to be impossible for anglos when the score needed was so high that without the bonus points for being of non-english speaking background, you would need over 100 % to get in. ( ok, this is a slight exaggeration, but not by much. Maybe the top few anglo students in year 12 could get in.. But the first-year medical class looked like an asian convention. )

 

 

[octave]

Bruce I am having trouble believing that non english speakers are given an easier run to get into a medical degree. I am wondering if this fact or myth. My son has a long time friend who is now a junior paediatric registrar at large hospital. I used to take him flying and he would entertain me with tales of medical school. He had many complaints but getting a harder run because he was anglo was not one of them.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Three of my Grand_daughters have passed their exams, but none have got in.

 

One Daughter chiropractics manager.another works hospital administration,yet a third (of four) aged care worker. English sister-in-law Registered nurse, but has to be age-care worker.

 

SO No work for Whities, in their chosen profession.

 

JUST Take a look at WHO is in the medical profession, or any hospital. Over 90% are NOT Anglo-Saxon, or even Australia.

 

My medical clinic, has No A-S doctors.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[octave]

Three of my Grand_daughters have passed their exams, but none have got in.One Daughter chiropractics manager.another works hospital administration,yet a third (of four) aged care worker. English sister-in-law Registered nurse, but has to be age-care worker.

 

SO No work for Whities, in their chosen profession.

 

JUST Take a look at WHO is in the medical profession, or any hospital. Over 90% are NOT Anglo-Saxon, or even Australia.

 

My medical clinic, has No A-S doctors.

 

spacesailor

 

Study - (PDF) ARE ASIANS OVER-REPRESENTED IN TRAINING IN THE HEALTH PROFESSIONS?

 

Space the fact that someone who passes an entrance exam does not mean they will be offered a position. There are rigorous interviews to determine suitability. My son's friend (who is Australian blowing your no job for whitey theory out of the water) finished his degree and got a job at a large hospital in NSW. He tells me that of the people who start training many drop out, either they decide it is not for them or they don't meet the required standards.

 

Yes there are many Asian doctors as well other nationalities. One reason Australia has many overseas Doctors is that we recruit them from overseas already trained, these doctors are not a valid example of our training system.

 

The fact that many Asian students go into medicine is because they also tend to do well in school and have parents who value education. As a music teacher, I have about 30 students around a 3rd of them are Asian and my top 4 students are Asian, this is purely because they come from families that value education and they are ambitious. Have a look at the students who top HSC or VCE.

 

One of my students wants to study medicine, she goes to a selective high school and is extremely bright and diligent and yes she is Asian or is she, I mean she looks Asian mmm but she is born in Australia.

 

Most of those foreign Doctors you see at your local health centre ARE NOT PRODUCTS OF OUR SYSTEM they are TRAINED overseas try asking them.

 

 

[Marty_d]

I agree with Octave (this is not uncommon!)

 

If whitey wants to be a doctor then whitey should study as hard as the others in their classes.

 

A mate's son is getting his PhD in some cardiac field (medical research) - he discovered some correlation in studies about blood pressure measuring (I don't even begin to understand it). Long story short, he's travelling the world presenting his results at conferences at the grand old age of 25.

 

Oh, and not that it means anything, but he's Anglo. (There's no such thing as race, after all).

 

 

[spacesailor]

"they don't meet the required standards" Australian standards were passed !.

 

"we recruit them from overseas already trained " Like Dr death.! ( and his ilk)

 

"they are TRAINED overseas" And do not show their Credentials on the wall like Aussie Dr's did. ( when we had an Australian Doctor, ( in the 80's))

 

spacesailor

 

 

[octave]

"they don't meet the required standards" Australian standards were passed !."we recruit them from overseas already trained " Like Dr death.! ( and his ilk)

 

"they are TRAINED overseas" And do not show their Credentials on the wall like Aussie Dr's did. ( when we had an Australian Doctor, ( in the 80's))

 

spacesailor

 

Do you really believe what you are saying? Just for clarity you actually think that overseas trained doctors do not have to pass any exams? If I don't know something I research it or talk to someone one has experience in that field.

 

Medical Board of Australia - International medical graduates (IMGs)

 

 

[Bruce]

The anglo students would have found it easier once they got in, it was the getting in that was harder for them.

 

It was done on academic points say out of 100. Now the cutoff was at say 97 points. But if you were of non-english background, you got 3 bonus points.

 

This was the case in South Australia at about 1990, and I was a no-account member of some committee that had to do with recruiting students, but we had no say in the number of medical places because the federal government had the say. We could have filled a thousand places with straight "A" students but were limited to about 60.

 

Lots of things have changed since my day though, so I bet this has.

 

Here in Western Victoria, the local doctors consist of an Indian woman and a devoutly moslem Pakistani man. It was unkindly said of the Pakistani that he would not examine women's genitals because of his religion, but when my daughter-in-law asked him about this, he vehemently denied it and I believe him.

 

 

[Bruce]

Octave, it is my understanding that British qualifications for medicos are accepted in Australia without any more exams.

 

The pathway was from India and Pakistan through London to Australia.

 

 

[octave]

Octave, it is my understanding that British qualifications for medicos are accepted in Australia without any more exams.The pathway was from India and Pakistan through London to Australia.

I am quite comfortable seeing a doctor who has been registered in Britain, we have similar systems. In Britain, all doctors have to go through a process called revalidation (much like a BFR). I can't see any evidence of a policy (at least at Sydney Uni). It does have to be remembered that the ATAR is not the sole admission criteria. One could have an ATAR 99.95 (the highest admitted in 2018) and be a total cold hearted unfeeling person and therefore not suited.

 

I am interested in facts rather than hearsay. I have no comment to make on the admissions practice in Adelaide in 1990 as I can find no solid information either way. But the notion that "anglos" (not sure what this means English? White?) are excluded from studying medicine is demonstrably false. https://medicaldeans.org.au/md/2018/12/2018_Student_Statistics_Report.pdf

 

"Student Statistics Report: 2017 – 2018 SNAPSHOT OF FINDINGS Australia In 2018 3,822 students commenced studying medicine at an Australian medical school; 31 fewer than in 2017 (a 0.01% decrease). Medical student numbers are expected to remain stable in the coming years, with predictions that commencements for 2019 will be down slightly at 3,799. There were 40 fewer domestic commencing students in 2018. They comprise 83% of the cohort, of which 9.5% are full fee paying (up from 7.6% in 2017, 7.4% in 2016 and 7.2% in 2015). The proportion of international students grew slightly to 17% from 16.7% in 2017. The number of Commonwealth supported places (CSPs) dropped by just under 100, primarily within the non-bonded places. 26.5% of domestic medical students are in a bonded scheme (to work in areas of workforce shortage) which is up slightly from 25.1% last year. The gender balance remains slightly in favour of females for all entry schemes, at 53% of commencing medical students, marginally higher than 2017’s 51.9%. 3,475 medical students graduated from Australian medical schools in 2017, of which 87% were domestic graduates. The number of international graduates (45) was the lowest since this report started in 2010. 25.2% of 2017 Australian graduates were in bonded schemes. Australia is predicted to graduate approximately 3,609 students in 2018"

 

For those who feel there are too many foreign doctors the answer does not lie within admission criteria but is more due to the fact that us taxpayers want to get the cheap4est deal we can. We would rather cut spending on universities and import doctors and nurses whose education has been paid for by the taxpayers of another country.

 

SO No work for Whities, in their chosen profession.JUST Take a look at WHO is in the medical profession, or any hospital. Over 90% are NOT Anglo-Saxon, or even Australia.

 

My medical clinic, has No A-S doctors.

Space you observation that 90% of hospital staff are not anglo saxon does not ring true to me. I have spent a lot of time hanging around hospitals lately as my 91 father has had many health issues with operations and 2 falls this year. Yes, there are people from many cultures (which I see as a plus) but 90% is a bit of an exaggeration. The last time he was in hospital his doctor was a Japanese woman in her 50s, she was fantastic.

 

Space can you define foreigner for me? You keep using the term Anglo Saxon which makes me think you mean white. If my incredibly smart and dedicated music student does end up in medicine would you classify her as a foreign doctor? She does have black hair and Asian eyes and darker skin but also has an Australian accent and was born here. My point is that you cannot walk into a hospital and visually count the "foreigners" unless you perhaps class an Australian born Chinese person as a foreigner

 

 

[spacesailor]

"(not sure what this means English? White?)"

 

How about," AUSTRALIAN " without a foreign accent, so with my impaired hearing, I don't have to ask for an INTERPRETER.

 

English people can't be classed as prejudiced as the original people no longer exist.

 

So being born there (England), and married to a person from another country, with children of different race's, I'm a mixed up "New Australian", having difficulties with" Trades-persons" doing my medicals, that I can't understand.

 

Most "Anglo's" are white. Including Scandinavians, Russians & most of Europe. ( not just poms ) .

 

You can give too much assistance to immigrants ( those three points to get them a degree), that dispossess the native people.

 

spacesailor