Hospital wait times

[octave]

"(not sure what this means English? White?)"How about," AUSTRALIAN " without a foreign accent, so with my impaired hearing, I don't have to ask for an INTERPRETER.

 

English people can't be classed as prejudiced as the original people no longer exist.

 

So being born there (England), and married to a person from another country, with children of different race's, I'm a mixed up "New Australian", having difficulties with" Trades-persons" doing my medicals, that I can't understand.

 

Most "Anglo's" are white. Including Scandinavians, Russians & most of Europe. ( not just poms ) .

 

You can give too much assistance to immigrants ( those three points to get them a degree), that dispossess the native people.

 

spacesailor

 

"having difficulties with" Trades-persons" doing my medicals" So are you suggesting that doctors who are not "Anglo Saxon" are not competent. If so why don't exercise a little bit of autonomy and look for a doctor that you feel is competent?

 

Even if the 3% thing was true we are talking about the top few percent of people academically speaking who are accepted. The entrance requirements are the easy bit. My son's friend (lets call him dr Al) used to write a fantastic blog while he was med school and during his residency, it was very enlightening and quite humorous. But the upshot is some people who start who and may be academically impressive still don't end up making the grade.

 

If you really believe that "foreign doctors" do not reach the level of competence that non-foreign doctors reach why on earth don't you make the effort to find a doctor you trust. I have a heart defect and when this was discovered I was referred to a specialist. My doctor suggested some names of specialist, I asked which ones had the most experience and the best reputation. I did not make a decision based on ethnicity. I do appreciate that you may have trouble understanding a Chinese or Scottish doctor with a strong accent then perhaps that particular doctor may not be right for you. I have sometimes changed doctors, not because of accent but from attitude, I don't like being talked down to.

 

The stereotype is usually that Asian people tend to be high achievers when it comes to academic pursuits. I certainly find that they tend to place more importance on progress and achievement than locals.

 

 

[spacesailor]

I use the nearest medical clinic, & normally have to have the reception, to repeat, their words more slowly,

 

Except one Indian Dr who has a very nice but very quiet voice, No troubles there but she is a Dr, not a receptionist.

 

I also have a grand-daughter (adult) with a Tiny voice, I tell her "My hearing aid is in it's box, Please shout a little", & my wife alway's tells me to stop shouting as everyone can hear me, everywhere.LoL

 

spacesailor

 

 

[octave]

I use the nearest medical clinic, & normally have to have the reception, to repeat, their words more slowly,Except one Indian Dr who has a very nice but very quiet voice, No troubles there but she is a Dr, not a receptionist.

 

I also have a grand-daughter (adult) with a Tiny voice, I tell her "My hearing aid is in it's box, Please shout a little", & my wife alway's tells me to stop shouting as everyone can hear me, everywhere.LoL

 

spacesailor

 

lol, should I post in CAPITAL LETTERS? I am the stage where my hearing is still not bad but it does get a little more difficult in a crowded place.

 

 

[Bruce]

There was no "exclusion" of white Australians at all. There was an "adjustment" to the raw scores if you were of " non-english-speaking background" as I have explained.

 

It was this, combined with the very high scores needed, which had the ( unintended ?) effect of excluding most whites.

 

There was another thing... you could take 2 years to do year 12 ( without penalty on your scores ) and this option was taken up by people from hard societies ( refugees ) much more than by locals. So the first year medical class was filled with pudgy asians who had studied 16 hours a day and done no sport and did only 3 subjects a year. Plus a few Greek males.

 

And yes, they realised that this was making the wrong people into doctors. They only wanted the million dollar incomes.

 

As regards " foreign " doctors, I ask you to consider the Bundaberg Dr Death. gosh I'm glad he didn't kill all the Jabiru lot. I wonder where he is now.

 

But as I said, this was only during a small window in time.

 

In my day, I could have done medicine if I wanted to. The only person in my class who wanted to was a very religious kid who wanted to heal like Jesus. Personally, I indicated I wanted to be an airline pilot, much to the horror of my teachers who thought this was a very downmarket trade.

 

 

[octave]

There was no "exclusion" of white Australians at all. There was an "adjustment" to the raw scores if you were of " non-english-speaking background" as I have explained.

Do you mean ATAR required to apply or UMAT or GAMSAT tests? Of course, this may be very different from the past.

 

Anyway whatever happened in the past is not a point that we need to wonder about as the figures are recorded. We know that in 2018 3822 students commenced a medical degree. 3171 were domestic students and 651 were international students. The term foreign is problematic. Does it refer to how you look or where you were born? As you say white students are not excluded.

 

Yes, of course, there was Dr death as well as the occasional locally trained doctors who slip through the system although ultimately detected by other staff in the hospital. Just like pilot training and certification for airlines, it works 99.9% of the time. There is no other country I would rather live in terms of medical care.

 

Just getting back to the original post

 

Many of the waiting patients could be fixed by nurses, or lesser qualified doctors, but this may expose the hospital to litigation.

Having had a few trips to ER in the last 5 years some for myself and some for my old dad (91 next week) the usual procedure seems to be an assessment by the triage nurse and after a perhaps considerable wait assessment and perhaps treatment by a resident or a registrar. A few years ago I thought I might be having a heart attack. The triage nurse checked my vitals and thought that I probably wasn't (she was right) I was then seen by a young resident who liaised on the phone with the cardiology department, I was monitored for an hour had a blood test and was sent on my way (with some mylanta) It is hard to see how this could have been done any more efficiently.

 

I am all for the idea of more being done by paraprofessionals such as nurses but I am not sure it would necessarily be the total solution. Nurses are already extremely busy therefore I think we would need more of them. If we want them to do more complex procedures we would need to train them and of course, they would need to be paid at a better rate. Not saying it is a bad idea but sitting outside any system looking in it is easy to think that the solution is cheap and easy but most systems or more complicated than they initially look

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

... I have sometimes changed doctors, not because of accent but from attitude...

One factor on which I tend to judge a medico is by the reading matter in their waiting room, which is presumably magazines the doctor or his staff subscribe to. National Geos, Australian Geos, science magazines, etc. tell me they are interested in the world and have an open mind. Magazines from aid agencies tell me a bit about their priorities.

 

The worst was a Sydney specialist whose waiting room only had luxury car brochures and magazines on how to avoid tax. His bedside manner was also appalling so I wasted a long trip.

 

 

[spacesailor]

My clinic has NONE.

 

Not even kids (Child's) , use to have them when first opened but probably don't read (Australian literature) books.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[octave]

My clinic has NONE.Not even kids (Child's) , use to have them when first opened but probably don't read (Australian literature) books.

 

spacesailor

I usually read this forum on my phone whilst in the waiting room.

 

 

[red750]

We've been attending our local medical clinic since the late 70's. There were originally 3 doctors on staff, all Australians, in their senior years, and now probably in that great operating theatre in the sky. These days there are a few permanents, four of whom are Australian, with a number of Asian doctors who seem to come and go, rotating through another clinic in the group. My own GP for the last few years is of Greek parents, but was educated at Melbourne University. He is second in charge and quite popular.Make an appointment to see him, and you can sit in the waiting room for half an hour or more. Other doctors see you more quickly.

 

My Australian cardiologist retires at the end of this month. He is handing over his practice to an Indian cardiologist with whom he has worked and has great confidence in. The new man commenced training in New Zealand, and graduated at Melbourne Uni.

 

Hospital waiting is where the problems exist, if you use the public system. Trying to get into the sleep study clinic at 3 local hospitals has a waiting list of around 5 months. I went to Box Hill (public) Hospital for a chest x-ray when my wife suspected I had bronchitis, and the waiting time at triage was around five hours. We have top private health cover which is expensive, but we can go to local private hospitals with hardly any waiting time. Knox Private has an emergency department, but you have to pay up to $200 to get through the door, which is not claimable.

 

 

[old man emu]

My doctor at a practice I have been attending for 20 years is Australian born but of Middle Eastern heritage. I only go to get prescriptions renewed for tablets I was put on for depression and anxiety 12 years ago, or to have him fill out my annual heavy vehicle driver's medical.

 

The depression and anxiety was work related. I've been out of that work for 12 years, so I don't have any of the same stress factors anymore. The original doctor who diagnosed stress and put me on the tablets is not an administrator of the practice and won't see me to change the diagnosis. The doctor I see says that since he did not do the diagnosis, he could not change it, but could refer me to a Head Reader who could - at a big price. That means no CASA licence, and hassles from the driver licensing mob.

 

The last time I went to see him, I wanted to renew my wife's prescriptions for tablets he put her on ages ago. I happened to ask him his advice on getting my heart's blood vessels checked before I started with exercise to lose the weight he told me to lose. He charged me the full practice price ($15 over the Medicare rebate amount) to write a referral to a cardiologist for a stress test AND bulk billed my wife for the scripts. As I sat in his room, I could see the construction site of the practice's "Day Surgery" building next door. The most annoying thing about seeing his is that the first thing he does when you walk in is to start filling in the payment chit that you give to the front office to pay for the visit.

 

Visit !!!! you don't even get offered a cuppa and biscuit.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

How frustrating, OME. A highly-recommended shrink diagnosed me with severe work-related depression. I reported this to my boss (the major cause of that illness) who then increased the pressure on me, until she had me removed. Seventeen carefully-worded letters and a couple of years of campaigning failed to get my job back, let alone any redress. Sociopaths know how to manipulate the system.

 

Meanwhile, the psychiatrist got lots of my money, but achieved nothing. He kept focussing on one manifestation of the depression, which presumably he found interesting. He ignored my efforts to explain the causal factors, as if that didn't matter to him.

 

I eventually realised he was probably more unbalanced than me.

 

 

[red750]

Slight thread drift. The cardiologist I referred to above, who is retiring this month, gave me a prescription for thyroid tablets at my recent check-up, the last time I will see him. The tablets come in a box of 200. My dosage is half a tablet per day, that's 400 days. Original plus 5 repeats means 2400 days, or six and a half years in one prescription! And the tablets? About the size of a grain of rice, and not long grain, either.

 

 

[Bruce]

I went to see one of the pudgy asians who was young enough to be a product of the system I am complaining about. It was for an area of my thigh that had less than normal sensation. I wanted MS etc to be checked out.

 

Well this GP said ( sitting at his desk ) that he didn't know what it was next patient please. I bet he was on a million a year from govt rebates alone, so quickly did he dispose of patients.

 

Yes, I should have put in a complaint. At the next place, I was checked over very competently.

 

Octave, that's a good point about other countries... I wonder where the best one is, and it might even be here. That story would be the worst service I have ever had, and yes he was the less than 1% who slip through.

 

OME, I have socially known 3 psychiatrists and they were all crazy. The least crazy one was struck off for sex with an underage patient, the other went so far off the rails that he locked his doors and refused any communications. The third one was such a bad father that his kids left home and cut him off.

 

I reckon it must be a feature of the job, maybe insanity is more communicable than we think.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Slight thread drift. The cardiologist I referred to above, who is retiring this month, gave me a prescription for thyroid tablets at my recent check-up, the last time I will see him. The tablets come in a box of 200. My dosage is half a tablet per day, that's 400 days. Original plus 5 repeats means 2400 days, or six and a half years in one prescription! And the tablets? About the size of a grain of rice, and not long grain, either.

That’s great news for your prognosis Red. We can expect to have you around for a while yet.

 

 

[Methusala]

We have 2 gp's, one from Africa and the other from the Sub-continent. They are both very thorough competent. Please be respectful of all people. Afghans, Chinese, Europeans, all have added culture and commitment to our adopted continent.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Methusala

 

I agree,They do Add to our overall community wealth.

 

BUT

 

Some don't try to speak our way, At home they speak their own language, even to their children, And wonder why the kids don't fit in. (my neighbor, Even had their "None English speaking parents here for a couple of months).

 

Fine, I don't have to engage with them, "DO I"?.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Bruce]

space, you do need to think of yourself in the reverse situation, like suppose you and your family had moved to china. Would you really speak chinese at home?

 

But I am interested in finding out how those doctors from overseas got qualified in Australia.

 

 

[Bruce]

On differences between the races...

 

Very hard to separate out culture from genetics, but there are clues. How many Chinese do you see in the final of the 100m sprint?

 

Surely that's not all down to culture, but as soon as you mention genetics, you open the possibility of other differences which are not so readily apparent.

 

You are racist when you don't give a person a fair go based on their race. Not when you are being scientific.

 

There was a school for gifted kids in Menlo Park. They wanted the mix of kids to reflect the catchment suburbs. They had to adjust the entrance test scores thus : subtract 6 points if you looked Chinese, no change if you looked white, add 20 points if you looked African.

 

Now this says nothing about individuals, the top kid could well have been African. Look at Obama for a high achiever...

 

 

[spacesailor]

"There was a school for gifted kids in Menlo Park."

 

Xmen !

 

spacesailor

 

 

[spacesailor]

My neighbor's mum always took off inside, if I spoke to her, The male didn't But I couldn't make conversation.

 

So why try.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

That must be near where they filmed, "Deliverance". Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

Yep space, this mate of mine ( who looks Chinese on account of being of Japanese genes, but still 5 generations in the US) had a kid and he looked into trying her out for that school.

 

I really don't think I'm a racist, but I do have some baggage in my head from growing up in Alice Springs in the 1950's.

 

For example, I tend to unconsciously stay upwind of black people. This is unreasonable these days where I live. I have not struck one around here who smells bad, but imagine an adult who has never washed or wiped their bum in their whole life. Well that is what I grew up with. Not their fault, how could desert aborigines possibly have washing in their culture?

 

 

[Methusala]

We are here in Vietnam staying with a family. Their 13 year old son is constantly studying (like 12 or more hrs per day for 6 days a week). His parents have both graduated from university. Vietnam is an Asian tiger economy growing at over 7pc/year. This is similar to Singapore, China, India and Japan. His parents have a realistic view that education is the way to success. I'm afraid that I don't see this attitude too much in Australia. I'm sure that many of you have similar stories. Indians succeed in all adopted countries. They don't do it by having opportunity thrown at them.

 

 

[old man emu]

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

 

These Asian and Oriental kids come out of universities with few practical skills other than those which might be associated with their field of study. Even then they most often only hold theoretical knowledge.

 

For rapidly advancing fields, especially anything related to computer science, universities and other tertiary institutions are a couple of years behind what is happening currently. Remember, before a university can include anything new into a course, the "new thing" has to be understood by the course-giver. Then lecture content has to be prepared, and then time for lectures on the topic have to be inserted in the course program. This can take a couple of years. Knowledge turn-over times in computer science are measured in week and months, so those who are able to apply it don't go to universities. They research the Internet and implement the "new thing" very quickly. To employ a surfing term, they stay just ahead of the break.

 

 

[octave]

These Asian and Oriental kids come out of universities with few practical skills other than those which might be associated with their field of study. Even then they most often only hold theoretical knowledge.

This is not my experience. I have quite a few Asian music students at the moment and have had many in the past. The typical Asian student I teach tends to be a high achiever in many areas. At the moment my student C is in year 9 at a selective school, he plays in the school orchestra and bad (which have quite high standards) as well as studying for his Grade 5 music exam. He has parental expectations to excel in all areas. Another student 15 T is an Asian girl who his pretty good at 2 instruments and goes to a selective school. Thankfully her although her parents expect high standards academically and in sports they have made it clear that her music is purely for relaxation. This means we get to have great fun playing jazz duets during her lesson. When I get a new student I can't afford to make any assumptions about them, this would be 9intellectually lazy and so often would prove to be incorrect.

 

I do resist the tendency to ascribe characteristics to various groups. The fact that Hong Kong has the highest average IQ (108) and Australia has the 9th highest (98) https://brainstats.com/average-iq-by-country.html tells you nothing about the next Australian or Hong Kong resident you meet. The education and family circumstances of the individual. If stereotypes have any validity then it would be interesting to ponder what are the stereotypes of an Australian and how useful are they in predicting what the next Australian you meet will be like.