Federal Election

[Jerry_Atrick]

@old man emu - One of my colleagues was moved from Sydney to London.. No doubt they are offering ahim a fat juicy carat.. ahem.. carrot.. but OI don't get the feeling he needed it.. If he wasn't a golden trader or other investment banking money maker prior to the GFC, he comes from a money family. One doesn't do a 3,000km trip down the Eastern seaboard of Australia in a convertible Bentley on a salary of what he is doing now...

 

The other, alothough of a disposition that would indicate heritage of modest means, comes from a moderately wealthy family in Brissie - they owned (and maybe still do) a snmall chain of Brisbane based retail outlets.. No - it is most definitely not the Stefano hairdressing dynasty (are they still going - I suppose Wikipedia will tell me).

 

Me... believe it or not.. am driven by the lifestyle.. although I did want to move back to Aus and almost made it until the abode we are currently in came up for sale... Bummer and was almost a deal breaker in other areas.. Having said that, I have done better here than I could wish for in Aus... But trust me.. that aint much. Without a degree in Aus, there is only so far one can go in what I do or have done.

 

Back to the election.. Yep - agree.. It had to be a scare mongering thing.. How do you think Brexit got over the line.. The commerical press that catered to the lowest common denominator ran the c@ck and bull stories that people who, I think wanted to be gullible, swallowed. How do you think Trump got elected? Although, having said that, the choice was not quite as stark. I am not sure out of Shorten and ScoMo who is the better.. But I do lean only very slightly left of centre. However I would think, despite his slim majority, the fact he won, and virtually by himself would hand him quite a bit of authoritarian power in the parliamentary party as well.. Hopefully he is a moderatre type

 

 

[nomadpete]

For sure, Jerry, there don't seem to be any impressive names behind Scomo, therefore he appears to be a solo winner (and did it without asserting any concrete policy, sigh).

 

But it took the combined votes of four liberal and national parties to do it. And I'm not referring to our dodgy preferential system.

 

Now that the race is over, do you really think that those four parties are going to govern harmoniously, without the dodgy deals and infighting we have seen in their past?

 

 

[old man emu]

"Without a degree in Aus, there is only so far one can go in what I do or have done."

 

I must tell my son that. The only bits of paper he has are his HSC and Cert II in Basic IT from TAFE, which he got as one of his HSC subjects. Lacking a degree must make it hard for him when he is signing six figure contracts with clients for his Digital Marketing skills. He got to the starting line through hard work and having a goal. It also helped that he has the Gift of the Gab when it comes to business.

 

 

[octave]

"Without a degree in Aus, there is only so far one can go in what I do or have done."

I must tell my son that. The only bits of paper he has are his HSC and Cert II in Basic IT from TAFE, which he got as one of his HSC subjects. Lacking a degree must make it hard for him when he is signing six figure contracts with clients for his Digital Marketing skills. He got to the starting line through hard work and having a goal. It also helped that he has the Gift of the Gab when it comes to business.

Yep same here. My son was home educated, at 15 he did a diploma in PC games production and at 29 has his own company with 8 employees and I think has more money than god. Nothing wrong with a degree andit necessary in many fields it is not the only path to happiness and success.

 

 

[Bruce]

I agree about acumen and hard work being better than a degree in some cases. My son did an apprenticeship and ( at 47 ) he is way ahead of those classmates of his who did degrees. But a son in law had to do a degree to get a starting position in construction. The son in law is doing well too, but I don't think the degree helps him on the job.

 

Some degrees are a waste of time and money, and some are essential to get a start in an industry.

 

High time for some culling of university offerings, say I.

 

What I would like to see is the standards lot take over quality control of degrees and to also work out other ways ( experience plus exams) of getting qualified.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Gents, I did say in what I do and had done.. I am totally self-taught in software engineering - no certificates, not even maths at HSC level.. However, I got bored with it, especially after I moved to management (teams of up to about 50 people). I am not a natural at management and when I changed career direction, I handed my exiting manager a clean white handkerchief and my response to his perplexed look was, "now you can wipe their bloody noses". Of course, moving from a code-cutter to management was done here.. virtually the day I arrived (well about 6 months after). In Aus, the first question was always, "I have been through your CV - where's your degree?". No it didn't stop me, but put me at a ruddy big disadvantage.

 

A couple of years after moving here, I started working in engineering fields that one does need a degree for in Aus.. if the work is there.. And now, I work in a field where one needs a maths or advanced economics degree with a big focus in statistics to get a look in, in Aus (and to be honest it would have helped here, too, but not a deal breaker).

 

Over here, the government has been promoting apprecnticeships is many forms of vocatonal activity as an alternative to degrees - including IT, Accounting, Engineering and some in the less cerebral such as retail management.. More Terms | UCAS The firm I am currently working for are taking on apprenticeships for the quantitative work we do as well as graduates.. There are different levels (inclduing graduate entry), but we are looking for A levels (HSC equivalent) people and we will train and put them through necessary education - it is virtually no differen to our grads, except they have a grounding in general maths theory. Government have worked out that this can significantly lower the public cost of education as well, withough significant changing the cost to private enterprise.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I did an industry Cadetship and two part time degrees. The degrees gave me credibility but most of my abilities came from continuous on the job training.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Heard some interesting analysis about the election today. Apparently Labor's franking credits changes weren't the problem - overall, in areas where people who would have been affected by the policy live (ie older and wealthier) - the swings were towards Labor.

 

Where the most swings away from Labor happened were poorer blue-collar areas. They'd also linked in voter's education and religion to the analysis and there was a strong correlation of less-educated christians going for the LNP.

 

Obviously QLD stood out as well, particularly in seats close to certain proposed coal mining areas.

 

 

[old man emu]

Just proves that you can't plan ahead without looking back.

 

 

[facthunter]

You can't ignore the preference deals with Clive and Pauleen. If you chart it, it completely matches the results we saw. Bowen performed a few home goals. and sometimes Bill sounded like a novice funeral director forced to replace his brother in Law at short notice. Of course there were quite a few BIG fibs involved. but they saw the opportunity and jumped at it. The trouble with this type of behavior is the younger people particularly, turn off ALL politics and the current rotten practices are the cause of it. Character assassination of your opponent is pretty low especially IF it's based on untruths , but it worked with Gillard and its helped NOW. Watching Question time is something deserving of a spectacular reward for tolerence it's so childish and pathetic. Never answer a question if you can rant about the other side who have no way of countering it at the time. and horrible Dorothy Dixer's from your own side . It's not called "Coward's Castle" for nothing. You can't be sued for what you say in the ParLIARment .Nev

 

 

[old man emu]

Isn't it a strange thing? If a Member of any of the Houses makes a slanderous statement in the House, then the recipient cannot sue. Yet the slanderous statement can be published and the publisher still can't be sued.

 

(I use the broadest sense of publish so to include broadcasting a video with sound and printing the statement on paper. I have to make this distinction because a verbal statement gives rise to slander while a printed one gives rise to libel. A fine Point-of-Law)

 

 

[facthunter]

It's a bit grim when the QT is broadcast "live" nationally. You couldn't buy that kind of propaganda opportunity, helped by an "assisting" speaker who sends out about 50 times as many opposition people as Government. They then don't have a vote for 24 Hours or whatever.. Just a glaring example of the "advantages" of incumbency .There are plenty of other examples without getting into MSM and Shock Jock support and bias ALL members of the Lower House are elected by the same aggregate of people (Simple majority) as the population (not the area) is the determinant so when someone is silenced ( I move the MEMBER be NO longer heard and it's passed on Party numbers) that persons electorate is denied representation In the People's House. of REPRESENTATIVES. . IF this was done all the time the opposition might as well stay away.. Nev

 

 

[red750]

What gets me is how a member puts their argument in a debate to an audience of four or five, then they ring the bells and all the others stream in and vote for or against something they haven't heard. Can you imagine a jury of 2 or 3, then the 12 cast their decision?

 

 

[red750]

Strange how everyone shunned the leadership but Elbow Kneesy, The others were "Yeah....Nah."

 

 

[facthunter]

There's not a lot of point running when the outcome is so clear. If you have to go through the process. It's about a month of stuffing around so it's better to avoid that if the outcome is obvious.. The media probably don't like that but who cares apart from them, who will have to go and find some other "story" to run on about.. Nev.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Albo should have got it the last time. He got the membership vote, but Shorten got the caucus.

 

I think it's a pity that Plibersek isn't running, or that Wong doesn't jump from the Senate and gets a lower house seat - because next election it'll be yet another boring competition between two grey middle aged white men.

 

Obviously the electorate doesn't have the capacity to vote on policy, so Labor need something different in a leader.

 

 

[old man emu]

Obviously the electorate doesn't have the capacity to vote on policy, so Labor need something different in a leader.

The Labor Party needs to look at the qualities of its former great leaders - JT Lang, EG Whitlam and RJ Hawke. These men were willing to work for the good of all the people, not just one side or other of the economic divide.

 

 

[Marty_d]

I really think the population has changed since those leaders. Can you imagine a Palmer or Hanson popping up in 1983? The electorate would (rightly) have laughed them off as a waste of space.

 

 

[facthunter]

They almost had the equivalent at times Harradine etc and the DLP but not so inclined to be outrageous just to attract votes. which it does these days .She says" I'm only saying what you are thinking". and that makes her look really Gutsy She's playing to her adherents. They all do it really.

 

Its all an illusion. Nothing is real. You get treated like an idiot and you aren't one ? Perhaps? Nev

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Seems there are a lot of disgruntled Labor voters on this thread :)

 

My opinion is we dodged a bullet. The proposed Labor changes were way too fast and way too much and I think that is what scared people the most. As far as telling porky pies during the campaign geez there are a lot of short memories on here. The last election and also the local by election up here in my electorate produced some of the biggest lies I have ever heard being told by Labor. My best outcome for the election has happened here in Longman..we go rid of the laziest federal member ever...bye bye Lamb...thank god..she was just useless.

 

My personal opinion is I dont like either major party they both tell lies and certainly have way different agendas. Labor have gone far left and are influenced by the lunatic Greens and the libs have gone too far right. What ever happened to a centre....cant anyone ever seem to use common sense anymore. If I was in power there would be lots of changes....admittedly I would be doing things that both major parties had on their agendas. This is what gets my goat. both of them re as bad as each other..just because one party thinks it up it seems the other party just has to oppose it

 

 

[facthunter]

I haven't been that specific on either party. Watch question time a few times Kyle. I know you won't want to, neither do I . Its disgraceful and I shudder to think what the overseas visitors in the Gallery Think of it. as well as some of the school kids that come there. My complaints about behaviour apply to any party, which does the wrong thing.. The newspapers have a part to play in this as well. Nev

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

The media should be hung out to dry..they dont have real journalists anymore they only have headline grabbers ...it doesnt seem to matter if there is or is not any truth to what they print they live for this "news cycle" crap. Yes question time is just disgusting...I watch it occasionally until it get beyond stupid...maybe 5 or 10 mins max. As I said I hate bot major parties..also some of the idiotic minor ones but I am told I am a prick because I think we need a benevolent dictator for while to sort the wheat from the chaff. Too many cooks in the kitchen now...they either hate each others menu or want to buy different food for each others menu.

 

My belief is to toss the lot out and try to start again but this time with real people...not lawyers and those straight out of uni that then join the "young" major party and become a union rep then into politics....most are silvertails...no matter if Labor or Liberal

 

 

[red750]

None of you would last five minutes at my house. My wife watches Question Time (Reps and Senate), Senate Inquiries, National Press Conferences, then Speers, Credlin, Alan Jones, Richo, the Outsiders, and Paul Murray. and that's just on Foxtel, Also watches The Insiders, 7:30 Report and Q & A on Channel 2..Then tirades me with all the opinions she disagrees with. Any wonder I spend my time on the internet or watching comedy shows.

 

PS. Missed one. Any telecast debate to a handful of members in either house. Ten minutes of Bob Katter talking to himself, etc.

 

 

[facthunter]

Abandon all hope Red. She will be beyond help at that level. Just say "Yes dear" convincingly. I haven't bought a newspaper since 1978. Richo they still introduce as a "Labor" person Tania put him in his place on Q&A for "making himself rich bagging his former party for reward". We have some of the best politicians money can buy.. Our corruption world index slips all the time I've been training to sound like a new Zealander in case I go overseas in the future. Nev

 

 

[old man emu]

Labor's problem has always been the desire the charge ahead to implement policies they see as reversing the stagnation of the conservatives. That's why Kyle can express the opinion, which is the opinion of may, that "proposed Labor changes were way too fast and way too much" He's right that the thought of rapid change put the frighteners on the electorate. So one could say that it is not the policies that the electorate disliked, it's just rapid change. Or in other words, Australians want the status quo.