Federal Election

[pmccarthy]

That is the definition of Conservative. To conserve the things as they are unless there is a persuasive argument for change.

 

 

[octave]

That is the definition of Conservative. To conserve the things as they are unless there is a persuasive argument for change.

When I was twenty my life worked pretty well but I am glad that I have gradually change the way I live my life. To get up every day and do the same thing is boring and unimaginative just because it worke in the past. If you do not try new things how do you know what you are doing is the best you can do?

 

The conservative view in the early days of the car was to yell at drivers - “Get a Horse!” greeted almost every automobile which appeared on the roads" Car History - Get a Horse! (Part 1: Early Skepticism)

 

What was the conservative veiw of woman being allowed to vote?

 

For many years conservatives told us that same sex marriage would be the end of society yet in 2017 it was finally allowed, is it a disaster for society, doenst look like it.

 

Early conservative attitudes to the aeroplane were not particularly positive. Being progressive means usually being vindicated by history whereas the passage of time usually makes coservatives look unenlighten and sometimes foolish.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Unfortunately we're at a period in history where rapid change IS needed. Talk to your local climate scientist and ask them which major party's policy on climate change had the best chance of reducing our carbon emissions.

 

I would argue that Labor is not far left at all, in fact they're in danger of being right of centre. When it comes to border policy, defense etc there's bugger-all difference between them and the LNP.

 

Their flip-flopping on Adani, trying to condemn it to Victorian voters but support it to QLD ones, was a silly mistake. They should have solidly condemned it but also presented a comprehensive plan for alternative job pathways in the affected area.

 

Conservatism is fine when there's no need for change. Point me to a period in history where that's the case!

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Well I dont think we are afraid of change as in my 60 years there has been a lot of change....the change that Labor wanted to envoke was way too much and way too fast. There is the old attidge of the young bull and the old bull. The young bull says to the old bull lets run down there and knock off one of those cows..the old bull says lets walk down and knock them all off

 

We can certainly make the changes necessary to get things done but if you are really honest with yourself Marty is it going to make any REAL difference to the world problem?. We could all convert to renewables right now and you may as well be pissing in the ocean for all the good it will do for the current CO2 issue the whole world has. It is akin to going into the outback with a can of Mortein and spraying a few flies...it might make you feel all warm and fuzzy but in the scheme of things it didnt do anything. Is it a matter of wanting to be seen to be done ?...because the real facts are it wont make any discernable difference on a world scale...and its a world problem. Again I am not saying dont not do anything we all need to do something but everyone in the world needs to be doing something. Labor's agenda would have broken this countries economy and there would have been a lot more on the poverty line than there is now. Status quo is also not a option for th long term either. The country needs to grow especially if you want to add 200,000 extra people in immigration every year...we dont have enough in place now for the piddling 25 million we have here now let alone adding a million extra every 5 years added then on top of population growth by natural means. They say the world can only really support 6 billion people and we are almost up to 8 billion now...so maybe we may have to take the fast approach here and put a age limit on people and euthenais them as well to get things done fast to help the earth. The debate is not sensible anymore not only in this country but also around the world. The process of getting the change to our environment should have started 40 years ago but it hasnt so trying to fit 60 years of improvement into 20 years just does not work mathmatically or practically.

 

 

 

[spacesailor]

"and put a age limit on people and euthenais them"

 

It's been tried & found lacking !.

 

HOW about a " two children policy", AND any further children to be Neutered at birth.

 

I think it's a more humane remedy.

 

I like to beat the odds & live a very long life,

 

"According to this criterion, the longest human lifespan is that of Jeanne Calment of France (1875–1997), who lived to the age of 122 years, 164 days. She met Vincent van Gogh when she was 12 or 13".

 

Suits me, four generations at the moment, another ten years, & my oldest Great Grand Son will be sixteen, And capable of procreating another generation. LoL ( one of two siblings (then 16 years for the next generation))

 

87 with five generations, 102 years old for six generations. Be too Blooodie old to enjoy them thou. LoL

 

An Aside for: Jeanne Calment, when aged 90, she sold her apartment on a 50% cash, & 50% payed to her estate, when she passed. BUT when she passed 101 year's of age, & walked to the cafe,s for her FREE glass of wine,

 

The buyer gave the apartment back to her. ( gave up smoking at 90 )

 

If I read it & remembered it correctly.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Marty_d]

It's just kicking the can down the road for another 3 years. We all know the LNP will do precisely nothing about climate change. They'll do some dodgy accounting, say we've met the Paris target (which is p*ss weak anyway), use that to claim the Kyoto credits and push our responsibilities offshore. It's all smoke and mirrors. And what's worse, in 3 years time when Labor is looking at their policies, they'll say "we can't do anything too suddenly - last time it spooked the voters." So nothing will be done even if they win.

 

You're right in one regard, if Australia went carbon neutral right now but no one else did, it's wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. We're not living in a world where things happen in isolation though. If Australia developed best practice in renewable generation and transitioned to a carbon neutral economy, do you really think every other country would shrug and say "Meh... nah, we'll stick with coal!"

 

I don't know how you reckon Labor would wreck the economy when they've given costings proving they'd be back in surplus at the same time as the LNP but with better structural economic fixes meaning that the surpluses would keep coming, and more importantly, give the opportunity to do meaningful change to the low carbon economy.

 

I look at my kids and wonder what I'm going to tell them when they grow up. "No... we didn't do anything about climate change... because, well, it would have cost us a little bit to transition. Oh, and we were too scared to change. Sorry 'bout that."

 

 

[red750]

Brrrrrr. This global warming is f'ing freezing!!

 

 

[old man emu]

Our politics are being driven by a small number of highly vocal forsooth-sayers. The population of the Australian continent is 24.6 million with a population density of 3.26/ sq km. 5.75 million of us live in just two cities -Sydney and Melbourne. Compared to the Northern Hemisphere continents, Australia is still unoccupied. It would seem that a major source of human-produced carbon gases is metropolitan ground transport and electricity generation.

 

I posted this some time ago when we were talking about climate change. I shows atmospheric carbon gas levels over one 12 month period. The commentary mentions that the production of these gases from Australia is highest in our summer as a result of bushfires.

 

The representation from NASA clearly shows that the majority of carbon dioxide is produced in the Northern Hemisphere and does not cross the Equator. Since we don't process raw materials (iron, aluminium crude oil) we don't release much carbon that way. The highest levels are produced by "hazard reduction burns" to protect the homes of those who choose to live in the forests.

 

It seems to me that those who are making the most noise about climate change are the off-spring of those people who in the late 60s and early 70s were calling out for land rights for gay whales.

 

While we should maintain a concerned interest in carbon gas levels, there is little need for climate change to be the over-riding concern in our politics. If preserving things that are unique to Australia is important, I'd like to see an great effort put into preserving Aboriginal languages (because studying them will help us understand how mankind developed communication), preserving Aboriginal knowledge of flora and fauna (because we could find new medicines, or food sources that could be developed as commercial enterprises for Aboriginal communities on their own country) and preventing our unique flora and fauna from the ravages of feral animals and monocultural practices.

 

 

[octave]

Our politics are being driven by a small number of highly vocal forsooth-sayers. The population of the Australian continent is 24.6 million with a population density of 3.26/ sq km. 5.75 million of us live in just two cities -Sydney and Melbourne. Compared to the Northern Hemisphere continents, Australia is still unoccupied. It would seem that a major source of human-produced carbon gases is metropolitan ground transport and electricity generation.

I posted this some time ago when we were talking about climate change. I shows atmospheric carbon gas levels over one 12 month period. The commentary mentions that the production of these gases from Australia is highest in our summer as a result of bushfires.

 

Would it be the case that the coal we export contributes to the northern hemisphere co2 emmisions?

 

 

[pmccarthy]

No it substitutes for dirtier coal that they would otherwise burn.

 

 

[octave]

There are 24 countries that emit 0.5-1.5% of the global co2 emmisions. This equals about 24% of global emmisions. Using the logic that our emmisions will not make any difference would surely apply to the other 23 countries with similar emmisions. 24% of co2 emmisions would fall into the category of we are too small to matter.

 

 

[Yenn]

I just hope that those of you who live in the big cities enjoy the increase in population. Every time I go to one of them I cannot get out fast enough to my little place with no growth and no population increase.

 

Just giving a population per sq. Km. and saying there is plenty of room for more does not take into consideration any of the requirements of people, such as access to water.

 

 

[facthunter]

Cape Grim in Tasmania which has some of the cleanest air in the world, yet showed over 400 PPM CO2 years ago now There is not an immediate transfer across the equator , but it does transfer. The OCEANS have been absorbing a lot of the CO2 and the resultant acidity is also measurable. Oceanic circulation is world wide We do live in a world environment dependent on each other. whether you want to believe it or not. Saying WE are OK Jack, isn't good enough.. . Plastic and acid oceans will affect us all. and rising sea levels and extreme weather may bring a REAL influx of refugees dwarfing the problem we have now. Climate change is HAPPENING and more and more realise it every day, but there are still plenty of Publications putting out dissenting views for their own purposes, and usually they are backed by people who benefit massively and don't care about the consequences to others.. They try any argument it's not happening It's snowing HERE today CLEAN coal.,sequestration, Nuclear, It's a plot to transfer capital The scientists make it up for more money??? We've always had hot days. I will be dead by then., What about people's Jobs? The total of job numbers in COAL mining is dwindling fast as It's NOT being backed by so many Banks , insurance Companies etc who've done their sums. and it's being entirely automated as fast as can be achieved. Coal MINING Companies don't care a stuff about People's Jobs AND It's NOT going to provide CHEAPER power. Check the REAL figures. It's NOT flexible. Its very short term. BHP don't back it and recognize climate links as well as numerous oil companies who are s#1t scared of being sued as they have it on their records back years ago, that the THEY KNEW of the link. Some people are trying to do the right thing. Do the others want a free ride and get high rewards for them and that's it. ? Just imagine how that's viewed by those who have taken the trouble to do something positive. When QLD has had floods and cyclones a lot of money has come from OTHER states so help.. Talking of secession won't go down well when it happens the next time. (And there will be more floods cyclones and extreme weather, and record breaking temps etc..) . You can bet on it.. Nev

 

 

[red750]

I saw a report where a robotic submersible was sent to the deepest point of the ocean so far investigated, and discovered a plastic bag down there.

 

 

[nomadpete]

Did they pick it up?

 

 

[octave]

OK just to tie together a few different topics. . The thing that pisses me off about the conservatives is this, they are not at all interessted in preparing for the future. By way of an example consider electric vehicle policy The conservatives may have a policy on EVs in a year or so, Meanwhile almost every vehicle manufacturer has anounced their phase out of IC engines. Most of the larger cities in Europe have anounced in the near future a ban on IC engines. Norway has already reached the 50% of new registrations being EV (and the grid did not explode) and yet conservatives foolishly think we do not need a policy. Where will we buy IC piowered cars whan then rest of the world has moved on. I do not want to live iin a backwater because conservatives are sh1t scared of change.

 

 

[facthunter]

Their lack of action in this area will cost us plenty in the long run. Attacking science and scientists is utter bull$#1t It's making a virtue of IGNORANCE Just about everything we do in the developed world is based on science or it fails. A fake scientist has no future in that DISCIPLINE. Science constantly reviews everything. . We are way behind in Science and maths due to these Neanderthals. (With sincere apologies to Neanderthals). Nev

 

 

[nomadpete]

Back to topic - Federal Election

 

Valid comments above, about the new additions to the voters (young people, etc). I suspect that the pollsters failed to get meaningful survey participation from the 'screen age' young people (or from some closed religious groups).

 

Also, there must be some responsibility sheeted home to the Australian education system. Average standards of Reading, maths, and science have been steadily dropping over the past couple of decades. (Graphed in the KPNG link below). This documented dumbing down of the populace probably also influences the climate change issue and the major pollution issue that the political parties are failing to address.

 

Australian Education Performance

 

 

[old man emu]

I was speaking to a high school teacher recently who told me that there had been a change of direction in the syllabus. It is redirecting focus to the basic 3 R's. Don't forget that it takes a child 13 years to progress from Kindy to HSC, so overall improvement in standards will take a generation.

 

Practical abilities of students leaving High School are greatly dependent on the variety of courses that a school can provide both in terms of economic return on teacher utilization and the logistics of timetabling for a whole group of students. At my school, way back when, it was not possible to do what was called Technical Drawing and the more "academically' aimed subjects. As a result, one of my classmates say that he could not carry on studying engineering because logistics forced him to do Latin instead of Tech Drawing.

 

Perhaps we should review this idea of progression through school by age and look at progression through completion of fields of study. But, on reflection, that won't work because you have to start with no skill of knowledge and continue to build as you progress. You can't put a starter in the same class as a finisher and teach the same thing. Another way would be to make the 3 R's compulsory, then specialize in a course. But what 13 -year-old has the knowledge of what they want to become before they have been exposed to the possibilities?

 

 

[facthunter]

A hard one OME. Do you have a "good greasy grip" of many areas of culture and interest or specialize and focus more on less of the spectrum. Often seen as knowing a little about a lot OR all about almost nothing . The "diminishing" of the Important role of science has been deliberate and costly to our country recently and it's awareness very noticeably lacking in those who push for science being regarded as just being another "belief" and want to include such non scientific things as intelligent design (by a GOD.) and astrology etc as science.) (further proving they have NO IDEA whatsoever what science is). Deliberate Ignorance is not Clever. Nev

 

 

[Methusala]

I think that it is entirely legitimate to claim that Morrison's "victory" was fraudulently obtained. The great majority of information published by the media (including the ABC) featured LNP and other right wing groups. This included representatives of IPA, BCA, Mining Industry Council, as well as many other right wingers on the panel of The Drum, Insiders and Q & A. Clive Palmer has admitted that he spent huge amounts of money to de-rail the Labor agenda. Pauline Hanson was given loads of free publicity even as her candidates where proven to have scurrilous motives. Posters misrepresented as from the AEC gave false information to Cantonese speaking voters. Social media posts, lacking the required source accreditation, were also pushing the right wing agendas. The list of false electoral material is almost endless. The USA is tying itself in knots about whether a foreign power distorted their electoral process but it is ok for Murdoch, a US citizen, to publish the most slanted material condemning one side of the game. Makes this citizen very skeptical when I see the ABC claim that the coalition is "pressuring" the opposition to back their threadbare climate strategy.

 

I think that I will devote the rest of my retirement to enjoying myself and not thinking about the generations down the track. Politics in Oz is just too hard.

 

 

[old man emu]

Jack of all trades, Master of none? You've got to admit that it is very cruel on children aged 13 and 14 to be making decisions that will affect the further 60 years of their lives, and then make out that their High School years are the be all and end all.

 

I think the best things we can insist on having in a curriculum are the 3 R's to form the basis of all other learning, and instruction on how to benefit from inquisitiveness. Children should be taught how to access information in order to keep ahead of, or at least on, the crest of the wave in the areas they find most interesting. The ability to communicate ideas succinctly will be essential in the future, so there should be less importance placed on True/False and Multiple Choice testing methods and more on public speaking, debating and written expression.

 

If children leave the school system able comprehend the written word; understand basic maths; can use writing/painting implements, and can express their thoughts clearly, then the door is open for them to follow whatever they wish.

 

 

[spacesailor]

"having in a curriculum are the 3 R's to form the basis of all other learning, and instruction on how to benefit from inquisitiveness."

 

NOT in my day !.

 

Taught by "rote" (whatever it meant).the teacher learns today, & so teaches tomorrow. if a student questions anything he gets punished.

 

" If children leave the school system able comprehend the written word;"

 

I would like ALL the children to be just literate . three kids I could name left high school, & are still unable to comprehend their dole forms. IN 1990's Australia.

 

something IS wrong. WHY teach French/German, or any foreign language. Instead teach the New ESPERANTO,

 

spacesailor

 

 

[red750]

They should be teaching Cantonese and Mandarin. We are rapidly being bought out by China, being overrun by Chinese who refuse to learn English.

 

Watched an episode of Highway Patrol this afternoon while doing a couple of aircraft profiles. Two drivers did not pull over for lights and sirens. The police had to follow them down the road for a kilometer or more till they stopped. When the police officer asked them why they didn't stop, they looked at her like she was speaking Klingon. Both Chinese. Couldn't understand what they had done wrong. One doing 62 in a 40 zone, the other went though a red light. Should not have had licences.

 

 

[Bruce]

Surely you can't get a driving license if you can't read road signs and speed signs?