Federal Election

[Bruce]

OME, while I agree about turning those rivers around, I don't think that will be enough. Australia is so short of phosphorous ( to name just one thing ) that our present population is completely unsustainable.

 

Of course, most people are completely unaware of this and if you pressed them, they would say that scientists will pluck it from the air one day.

 

You could try , perhaps on some place like Kangaroo Island, to prove me wrong, good luck! And I haven't even mentioned climate change...

 

I sure feel sorry for the remote aborigines who one existed sustainably here... they no longer do. But their pre-whitefeller standard of living gives us a clue about what is possible without imports.

 

PS. The aborigines on Kangaroo Island died out thousands of years ago... the place is deficient in selenium, a fact which took whitefeller scientists many years to find out.

 

 

[facthunter]

There's a lot of evaporation and seepage from using rivers to move water large distances in low humidity situations. You also have to have a suitable site to dam the water and perhaps[s PUMP it over the divide. Think channels V/s pipes for irrigation. A 400-500 KM of pipe cost the same as a desal plant for the water, (forgetting the dams etc). Australia as a continent is one of the driest on the Planet. with very little topsoil and little carbonaceous matter in it If you removed those who live on the coast from consideration the rest of it is practically uninhabited. Cutting down trees for growing wheat has raised the temperature and lost a lot of topsoil in dust storms. and made many areas saline. It's a pretty delicate environment to look after We are getting a colossal weed and feral animal problem and Fire ants as well to FIX. people in the cities have NO idea.of the REAL world out there. Just pull the chain and all your problems are flushed away.. Nev

 

 

[old man emu]

It's really easy to identify the things that would hamper the development of the Interior, and that's a good thing. The real courage comes from having a go at solving them. Unfortunately, since the majority of politicians live on the coastal fringe, and only concentrate on the time until the next election, we won't see them acting courageously.

 

 

[Bruce]

Yep Nev, last week I did a ferry flight to Gympie from Gawler and the country looked terrible and empty until you got to the Great Divide, where it changed to be green and crowded. There are millions in the greater Brisbane area.

 

You are probably right about the poor economics of pumping water westwards over the Great Divide too, but I would much rather see my taxpayer dollars spent on such schemes, using solar-powered pumps of course, than on submarines and similar stuff.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Agree !. " but I would much rather see my taxpayer dollars spent on such schemes, using solar-powered pumps of course, than on submarines and similar stuff."

 

How much solar & wind farms per Military jet & submarine, will we get ,

 

IF

 

we put all that money into fixing our problems, Of course the water pumping will only happen with the Spare electricity.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[octave]

Havent had a chance to read this carefully yet but seems interesting.

 

Fossil Fuel Subsidies Cost U.S. More than Defense Budget: IMF Report – Rolling Stone

 

 

[old man emu]

I'm not saying that all our woes can be fixed in five minutes. We need bi-partisan agreement to go ahead with investigation and planning and a commitment from all political parties to do something, not for the generations alive today, but for our future generations.

 

 

[octave]

not for the generations alive today, but for our future generations.

 

A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit

 

 

[facthunter]

A couple of submarines won't change much . How the hell can WE defend ourselves against a major power? They have mutually assured destruction capacity of each other. The whole idea is purely madness. USA couldn't defeat Vietnam.. No one can win a war in Afghanistan. They hanged up Iraq. Shock and Awe and haliburton makes money for Cheney but what did that achieve? Based on LIES abouit weapons that never existed. The ME is now worse than ever.. Only Jordan is civilized.. US has always sided with Soddy Arabia cause of the OIL. and it's not a [place I wish to go to.. Nev

 

 

[willedoo]

Pre poll voting is popular this time round. On Friday, I joined the other 1.5 million who have voted early. There was a steady stream of voters, not much different from the volume on election day.

 

Also in attendance was a big cheesy grin with two legs and a permanently outstretched hand. I think it was our local member. God help us.

 

 

[Yenn]

Why pump water over the great divide. There is a cast amount of water that runs west of the divide and it is not used sensibly. Water from just about the tropic line in Qld flows out into the Southern Ocean, via the Murray.

 

We do not have enough water to keep growing the population and a lot of what we do have is wasted. There doesn't seem to be much talk about water or the environment from the current crop of political hopefuls. Only One Nation seems to be really committed, and that is to more and more coal fired power stations.

 

 

[spacesailor]

It is the problem with NOT enough water in the Murry riiver for ALL that want to use it.!

 

"Water from just about the tropic line in Qld flows out into the Southern Ocean, via the Murray. "

 

By way of that dry river bed Darling.

 

The water comes in times of flood. In Queensland, then the drought, comes later.

 

What we (& other's that live there) want, is a Constant supply of water.

 

Between 10pm & 2am, this residential population does not draw much power from the grid, & 4 hours pumping water to were it's needed shouldn't be an unsolvable problem in this ara of time. !

 

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

You can only get it from somewhere it can be captured and stored. You don't store it high up on the plateau, You store it in Valleys downstream a bit where a narrow , deep and more cost effective dam will work. It might perform a flood mitigation function in somecases, BUT Dams muck up river ecosystems also.. To add to the inland water total it would have to be pumped back over the higher country , and as I've said before the evaporation rate is high in rivers in low humidity high temp environments and people steal it along the way and it leaks out into the substrata of the banks. Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

"You store it in Valleys downstream a bit where a narrow , deep and more cost effective dam will work"

 

THEN pump it to were it's Wanted.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

Piping and pumping is not that cost effective. 500 KMS is more costly than desal. Kalgoorlie HAD to have it but it COSTS. Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

"500 KMS is more costly than desal. "

 

There you go "desal" LAKE EYRE.

 

BUT

 

were will you put all that salt ?.

 

A bit like Nuclear aint it , A good idea except for the sheet left over, when finished.

 

Best start with good product, transport it were it's wanted,

 

Industry Needs good cheap labour. But will not put a plant near Lake Eyre, were there's massive unemployment.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[old man emu]

There's no denying that putting water into rivers near their sources so that water levels will remain constant downstream will impact on a breeding regime that fish have adjusted to over millennia. However, I'm sure that Nature wold soon adjust things to accommodate filled rivers.

 

Yes, there will be evaporation. That just means that someone has to take evaporation into consideration when determining how much water to introduce to inland rivers.

 

But how long does it take water to flow from the head of a river to the sea? It's not as though we are suggesting releasing flood surge levels of water.

 

Unless water is taken from a river and bound up in produce, Mankind takes it out and returns it to a river system many times between head waters and the sea.

 

 

[old man emu]

Sick of being bombarded with election ads by the Libs? I hear that someone donated more than a million dollars to the Libs to run those ads.

 

It's no crime to give away your money, but to me it smacks of self-interest. Surely one could help one's fellow man by using the money philanthropically. Even old Kerry Packer aided the community by donating Packer-whakers to the ambulance service after one of those devices brought him back to life.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Gents,

 

Haven't read the whole thread (but can see it has morphed into the virtues of a water pipeline v desal plants). However, getting back to the Federal Election.. I haven't been following it because, although I am an Aussie, I am not allowed to vote.... And to be honest, Aussie politics is at least giving UK politics some semblance of logic... OK.. that is an exaggeration. THere is no logic in eith UK or Aussie politics.

 

But, I am thinking - who is going to win the election. ScoMo is hardly a statesman nor a leader.. I listened to him the other day prattle on about something or other.. I turned my mind to watching the wall I had just painted in eager anticipation of it drying.

 

But Shorten isn't exactly inspiring either... But.. although said with a qualifier in that I have no idea what/how the nationals are doing in their heartland...

 

ScoMo and the LNP in general have been underperforming what is expected of [oxymoron alert] competent politications for decades. Labour, through Rudd and Latham when he was in charge probably equally so (Gillard, was actually OK, given the challenges she faced that a man wouldn't have). Shorten, however, is sort of in the same position Bob Hawke was in the 80's; a fractious, unpopular and in disarray ruling party.. But, the performance is more like Bill Hayden; logical, almost sound, but not able to capture the hearts and minds of the swinging voter..

 

The reality is, for all the rubbish that comes out of the LNP, ScoMos personal approval rating is higher than Shortens (although Shorten has shortened (ha ha ha,, I crack myself up) the odds a little there). And the ALP has a 51 - 49 lead on a 2 party preferred basis - 2 points, despite, the supposed popularoty of his policies, and his party.

 

I know under a proprotional representation system, 2 points is probably a lot more in reality, but it is, from an ALP perspective, concerning, that the 2 party preferred difference isn't double that. Let's look at history:

 

Trump - 4 points behind Hillary all through the campaign; despite his flagrant faux pars throughout the campaign, Hillary couldn't capitalise on it. The email scandal didn't help her, but compared to the Trump antics, it was a blip. The suddenly, Trump trumps Clinton.. game over.. I made a pretty penny on that one.. 20:1 with a £50 investment.

 

Theresa May.. (Unbelievably) was handed the leadership and did what she does really well.. Made a speech. She and her Conservatives took a 26 point lead (that's right.. 26 point lead) over Labour. She is stoopid as she didn't call an election there and then.. Dimentia tax? Who cares as long as Zigge and Jacques are marched from our borders.... But she waited and waited and the realisation dawned on her that if she couldn't manage to do anything in the Home Office, what chance would she have as PM on Brexit. So, with a 4 point margin, she calls the election to bolster her hand domestically (although for some reason, the press took it as bolstering her hand in Europe - something she was unable to counter). Despite Corbyn being in bed with terrorists of all sides and a commie, she could never turn around that 4 point lead.. it eventually eroded on election night.. Now we have some obscure NI party holding the UK to ransom.

 

The last election I was actively involved in (except for the Republic referendum) was Johnny Hewson v Paul Keating. Remember that super economcs scholar Johnny Hewson v the autocratic PM non-elect, Paul Keating. Hewson enjoyed a lead in the polls but never widened it.. Actually, a couple of TV debates where he was lacklustre and Keating rightly accusing Hewson of slapping a tax on your corn flakes (except, as I recall, essential foods were exempt, and corn flakes are hardly a luxury), and Hewson's poll lead on polling day, was, well, stuffed.

 

Let's look at the one-prior UK election - 2015 - Ed Milliband v David Unwinnable Cameron.. Under EM, the Labour campaign was divisive; us and them; poor v rich; how bad the other guy was.. There was not one bit of positivism in the general marketing campaign.. it was the rich are bad and the working people are badly done by, the conservatives are evil, the lib dems are useless, etc etc etc. There was not one ad, slogan or rally that focussed on what good they would do. OK, Ed Milliband, unlike his brother, is a little snot-nosed career pollie, that no one could relate to, but David Cameron was a pompous Eton boy riding on the coat-tails of his wife's success - also someone no one could really relate to.. The Conservatives campaign was so benign, I can't even remember it.. However, who won? Conservatives - and decisively..

 

So, looking at this current Aussie election:

 

- ScoMo's personality rating higher than Shortens

 

- ALP only 2 points ahead (albeit at this late stage) of the LNP. Given the disarray the LNP are in and the "cohesion" of Labor, that in itself is a real worry..

 

- ALP's radion campaign quite divisive.. and knocking the ither guy without really offering too much...

 

- I can't see Aussie TV (Except for Fox [Aussie Rules] Footy), so not sure if the ALP's providing much more than visials along side its radion campaign.

 

- LNP prattling on about the potential budget deficit (yes I know the LNP have made it far worse than when they tool over from Labor - Unf., not all Aussies know that). The only thing complicating it is that they are no better at a positive campaign than the ALP.

 

I guess it is watch this space, but anyone willing to offer me 20:1 on a LNP win?

 

 

[old man emu]

20:1 would leave the poor bookies with only their pork pie hats to eat. Australian voters have been so propagandised by the Conservatives that they will always believe that the Labor Party are the henchmen of Beelzebub. Australian politics has always been of the "carrot and stick " variety - handouts (which never eventuate) or new taxes (which are never reviewed). In a land of lotus eaters, the voters never bite the hand holding the handout.

 

20:1!!!??? My guess is that the odds are closer to 1:20 for a LNP victory.

 

And may (here insert your spiritual contact) have mercy on us all.

 

 

[Marty_d]

All I can say is, I hope you're wrong.

 

Labor is coming to this election with costed policies announced well in advance. The LNP has no coherent policies at all and is acting more like an opposition.

 

Doesn't take a genius to see that Labor is the lesser of two weevils, just hope enough people can see that to get them over the line.

 

 

[Bruce]

Getting back to water, I reckon that denying upstream irrigators water so that the lower lakes in SA can lose it all in evaporation is awful. And yes its a political question... the greens act as if this is saving the planet somehow.

 

 

[old man emu]

All I can say is, I hope you're wrong.

I hope so, too. But after suffering from the effects of politics on "My Fellow Australians" for over 60 years, I've reached the conclusion that greed and self interest are the determining factors in elections.

 

A Party may have developed and properly costed the handouts it's offering, but the competing parties only have to say, "That'll raise taxes" and the crowd will run like a shoal of mackerel before a shark.

 

The Chinese and Russian Communists, although knowing that they could retain power through force, did make long term plans. Is China the economic powerhouse it is today, simply because manufacturing suddenly appeared?

 

I can't see ScoMo calling in the removalists to The Lodge next Monday. I'm still showing 1:20 for a LNP victory.

 

 

[Yenn]

whoever wins it is going to be a loss for Australians. My belief is that a hung parliament would be the best bet. Remember when we had that before.

 

The compulsory voting system is only promoting mediocrity. The other thing promoting mediocrity is that to become endorsed for any party you have ti lick arses and generally become a poor candidate. No chance for anyone to get on the party ticket and still have any sense of decency. It is just a scramble up the greasy pole. Long live the Independents.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Trouble with hung parliaments is the minor parties and independents have a disproportionate amount of power, because whoever is in charge by the skin of their teeth needs them to get anything done.

 

That's not too bad when you've got sensible progressives like Phelps, Xenophon, Greens, Wilkie etc - may actually get some decent reforms done - but unfortunately you also have the batsh*t crazies like Hanson, Katter, Palmer, Bernardi, etc etc. Giving them more leverage in deals is definitely not a good idea.