The climate change debate continues.

[pmccarthy]

Internationally, the carbon traders in particular. Al Gore is a prime example.

edit…I didn’t mean to get drawn into the politics, let’s stick to the science.

Edited August 23, 2021 by pmccarthy

[octave]

PM you surly don't believe that there is no profit motive to deny climate change by fossil fuel companies do you?

 

[pmccarthy]

The mining companies and the fuel companies seem to be embracing climate change, I haven’t seen much denying. I think they can see profits in it.

[Marty_d]

1 minute ago, pmccarthy said:

The mining companies and the fuel companies seem to be embracing climate change, I haven’t seen much denying. I think they can see profits in it.

I can't see how an oil company could make more money out of climate change than they could out of continuing their core business.

So... doesn't it make more sense that they know the science is in, they know it's real and they know their traditional business is going to have the floor drop out of it unless they adjust?

[octave]

2 minutes ago, pmccarthy said:

The mining companies and the fuel companies seem to be embracing climate change, I haven’t seen much denying. I think they can see profits in it.

only after many years and some would argue that they are still dragging the chain in order to wring every last cent out of fossil fuels.  Exon and Shell produced research in the late 90s and early 80s

 

https://www.climatefiles.com/shell/1988-shell-report-greenhouse/

[pmccarthy]

This article goes to manipulation or misinterpretation of temperature data. It makes interesting reading.

https://clintel.org/new-ipcc-report-resurrects-the-hockey-stick/

 

[Fliteright]

Whilst I don't deny we have a shifting climate the human species which currently occupy the planet wouldn't be able to make any discernible change in the time we have left here! The planet has been changing/evolving since it was formed a few years ago, our existence is but less than a blink of an eye!

Whilst we do have pollution, garbage etc we wouldn't be where we are today if we didn't, progress leaves a footprint, this is ours!

Perhaps after the next ice age (which we truly need) the next species will live in harmony!

[Dax]

31 minutes ago, Fliteright said:

Whilst we do have pollution, garbage etc we wouldn't be where we are today if we didn't, progress leaves a footprint, this is ours!

But does that technological footprint have to be so damaging and where are we today, but on the brink of social collapse and more destruction. At the moment don't see where we are as progress, just the opposite. Evolution should not be destructive, it should be constructive towards life, the environment and the future.

 

It appears to me time has run out, there was an article today which claims pollution is causing a rise in mental illness and I would certainly agree with that. It's one of the elephants in the room no one is looking at and one which may well drive more and more people over the edge. We are seeing a huge rise on supposed mental illness in the young, I see it more as an inability to cope with the massive changes we are starting to experience and the future they have to look forward to. No amount of cajoling, lying or deception by the political world, will change anything, in fact its the political, religious and elitist worlds that are to blame for the entire world situation and nothing else.

[pmccarthy]

The mental illness is being caused by the media and the people telling our children that they are on the eve of destruction. It simply isn’t true, and this BS is causing tremendous harm. 

[pmccarthy]

Here are 21 headlines from various news sources regarding dire climate predictions over the last 50 years. Original news clips at https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-of-failed-eco-pocalyptic-predictions/

1967 Salt Lake Tribune: Dire Famine Forecast by 1975, Already Too Late

1969 NYT: "Unless we are extremely lucky, everyone will disappear in a cloud of blue steam in 20 years. The situation will get worse unless we change our behavior."

1970 Boston Globe: Scientist Predicts New Ice Age by 21st Century said James P. Lodge, a scientist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research.

1971 Washington Post: Disastrous New Ice Age Coming says S.I. Rasool at NASA.

1972 Brown University Letter to President Nixon: Warning on Global Cooling

1974 The Guardian: Space Satellites Show Ice Age Coming Fast

1974 Time Magazine: Another Ice Age "Telling signs everywhere. Since the 1940s mean global temperatures have dropped 2.7 degrees F."

1974 "Ozone Depletion a Great Peril to Life" Universityof Michigan Scientist

1976 NYT The Cooling: University of Wisconsin climatologist Stephen Schneider laments about the "deaf ear his warnings received."

1988 Agence France Press: Maldives will be Completely Under Water in 30 Years.

1989 Associated Press: UN Official Says Rising Seas to 'Obliterate Nations' by 2000.

1989 Salon: New York City’s West Side Highway underwater by 2019 said Jim Hansen the scientist who lectured Congress in 1988 about the greenhouse effect.

2000 The Independent: "Snowfalls are a thing of the past. Our children will not know what snow is," says senior climate researcher.

2004 The Guardian: The Pentagon Tells Bush Climate Change Will Destroy Us. "Britain will be Siberian in less than 20 years," the Pentagon told Bush.

2008 Associate Press: NASA Scientist says "We're Toast. In 5-10 years the Arctic will be Ice Free"

2009 The Independent: Prince Charles says Just 96 Months to Save the World. "The price of capitalism is too high."

2009 The Independent: Gordon Brown says "We have fewer than 50 days to save our planet from catastrophe."

2013 The Guardian: The Arctic will be Ice Free in Two Years. "The release of a 50 gigaton of methane pulse" will destabilize the planet.

2013 The Guardian: US Navy Predicts Ice Free Arctic by 2016. "The US Navy's department of Oceanography uses complex modeling to makes its forecast more accurate than others.

2014 John Kerry: "We have 500 days to Avoid Climate Chaos" discussed Sec of State John Kerry and French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabious at a joint meeting.

21 February 2019 J Kerry Earth has 9 years to avert the worst consequences of climate crisis: "There's no faking it on this one"

[Fliteright]

Fear (fear of the world becoming unlivable) sells newspapers! Fearmongers have been operating since the dawn of time, mostly grubby Govts especially in the last two years! There's nothing we can do to change what nature has in mind for us other than not make as much mess in our own backyard!

Edited September 2, 2021 by Fliteright

[gareth lacey]

To put a twist into this how much sxxt(faeces) do 8 billion people produce daily, annually ,a quick calc is .5 kilo per person( i am being liberal with the amount could be more) times 365 x 1 million is 18.5 thousand tonnes per year( the math for 8 billion is over my head)not just human waste but all the food, trash, used up goods so a lot of sxxt going where?  that tells me that we have to many people on the planet, the amount of waste per person is staggering, there will be a time when there are too many people on this planet, i will not see it my grandkids wont see it but 100 years from now there will have to be drastic measures taken to reduce the population on this planet, that may come from a virus that wipes out most of humans, or destruction from global wars over water and food, it is not sustainable the way we are going,and i am not a total believer in climate disasters but more on the side of reducing population.

 

[Yenn]

Gareth. that time is now and mother nature has started the rectification process. She tried it before in 1918, but it was premature, maybe this time it will work. The chances of it working are aided by human stupidity, so which way do we go.

It reminds me of when I told someone that we were at the asshole of the world. He asked me which way I as going and I have never used that expression since.

[spacesailor]

We have started a new,Old toilet system.

Just need more councils to implement the ' shit ' for garden fertilizer.

Most of my neighbors put their grass mowings in the bin instead of composting it.

What a waste! !.

Europe sells it,s dried shit to happy gardeners.

spacesailor

[Dax]

We use the methane form our septic for cooking what comes out the outflow goes into the garden and because of our diet, we've never had to clean out the septic tank in almost 25 years. What comes out of the outfall is excellent non smelling nutritional goodies for the garden.

 

As for climate change, the viewable evidence is growing and it's irrelevant as to what's behind it, it;s happening. But one thing is sure, human activities are behind most of it.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Dax

Thats great !.

But

After many years your septic tank has to have the sediment ' dug ' out.

The New way in Sydney,s west is No tank, & is sprayed onto the garden.

Electricly sanitised.

spacesailor

[Dax]

57 minutes ago, spacesailor said:

After many years your septic tank has to have the sediment ' dug ' out.

The New way in Sydney,s west is No tank, & is sprayed onto the garden.

Electricly sanitised.

That depends or the sort of diet you have, there is no sediment in my septic, it comes out with the outflow as there are no fats or chemicals to congeal and weigh it down.  I emptied the tank a few year ago to check the amount of sediment and it was just a couple of centimetres on the bottom, so closed it up and left it.

 

Wouldn't surprise me what the misfits of W Sydney do, they are extremely primitive minded and like all god nutters, a detriment to our future in a big way. The insanity of our politicians and do good nutters, is like having the enemy within our midst and helping to bring us down with more deranged people unable to comprehend reality and live sensible logical lives.

[Fliteright]

How long has human habitation been on the planet that would create an effect on the climate? It's immeasurable in the scheme of things! Our impact on the climate over the lifespan of the planet can never be measured as record keeping has been going on for but less than a 100000000th blink of an eye! Climate change of any measurable concern is a crock of sh1t, always has been but the looney's love the fear!

[Marty_d]

Oh christ, he's found Off Topic and is about as accurate with climate change as he is with covid.

[Bruce Tuncks]

One feature that has always been there is to exaggerate the rate of change. I offer George Orwell's "1984" as an example. But many of his predictions are slowly coming true.... just recently, the SA police commissioner announced a trial of facial recognition technology.

So your list of old and wrong headlines doesn't tell us much, PMC. Given the millions of headlines generated over that timespan, the list is small anyway. I bet there were lots of correct headlines too.

Where are those trees uncovered by the shrinking glaciers? I am seriously interested.

Around here, there have been fences uncovered as lakes shrink, showing the lake was absent or smaller in the past. This has been taken by some as "proof" that the climate is not changing. Alas for them, there has been land use change, especially clearing, which has increased runoff.

To be as consistent as the climate-change lot, you need to explain things like the Greenland  rainfall stuff that Dax mentioned.

Personally, I agree with Dax and reckon we need to do big things and quickly too, since it may well be already too late for some. 

[pmccarthy]

Like many of Australia’s ACORN-SAT weather stations, the site at Townsville airport was set-up in 1939 as an Aeradio office for monitoring air-traffic and to provide advice of inclement weather along the east coast route between Melbourne and Port Moresby.

Changes in facilities, instruments and functions caused the site to move irregularly; however, moves and changes prior to December 1994 were not detailed in ACORN-SAT or site-summary metadata. Despite repeated assurances in peer-reviewed publications written by Bureau climate scientists and others, that the history of ACORN-SAT sites had been exhaustively researched and appropriate adjustments had been made for the effect of site changes on data, it was not the case at Cairns and neither is it true for Townsville.

As there is no measurable change or warming in temperature data for Townsville Airport, claims of catastrophic consequences for the Great Barrier Reef are unfounded in the temperature data and, as a consequence, are grossly overstated.

 

For further reading on the problems with BOM data, see https://www.bomwatch.com.au/

[onetrack]

C.Y. O'Connor, the great NZ/Australian engineer, who built both Fremantle Harbour, and the Goldfields Pipeline in W.A., installed a Bailey tide gauge in Fremantle Harbour in 1896.

It is the second-oldest tide gauge in Australia, with the oldest at Fort Denison in Sydney Harbour.

 

Despite the climate alarmists telling us every seaside suburb in Australia will soon be metres deep under water with rising sea levels, due to ice melt caused by GW, the greatest single problem is we have no reliable historical measures of MSL - despite dozens and dozens of tide gauges being installed around Australia since the late 1800's - because these tide gauges accuracy and data recordings, are laughable at best.

 

These tide gauges had constant data-recording failures, which means that vast amounts of tide data are not only unreliable; many are inaccessible, thanks to scattered recording systems with little indexing, and they involve such vast amounts of physical work to discover and digitise, the hydrological authorities are struggling to try and ascertain this important historical tide metadata.

 

It is only in the very recent era of GPS, that a reasonable degree of accuracy and reliability in metadata, with relation to MSL, has been obtained.

So, due to this poor historical metadata, I'm puzzled as to how the alarmists can be assured that their figures involving substantial amounts of sea level rise due to ice melt, are accurate.

 

Here's an interesting study done by Manly Hydraulics Laboratory for NSW Public Works and the NSW Dept of Environment & Heritage, detailing all the problems associated with trying to ascertain historical MSL around Australia, with any degree of accuracy.

 

https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/www-data.manly.hydraulics.works/www/publications/oeh/reports/mhl2179 tide gauge histories metadata report final.pdf

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by onetrack

[onetrack]

Here is a good, independent research document that has studied sea level rise over a long period of time. The researchers conclusion?

 

(My italics)

 

"The global pattern is consistent with a small thermosteric sea level rise with negligible acceleration, explained as a gentle recovery from the low temperatures of the Little Ice Age, that was caused by the record low solar activity of the Maunder and Spörer Minima, as well as volcanic activity and internal oscillations in the climate system.

The onset of the Little Ice Age occurred after the Medieval Warm Period, about 1350. It was the cause of the Vikings’ decolonizing of the once green Greenland. This cooling period ended about 1850. Since then, the sea levels are rising without any significant acceleration component. The effect of global warming on the rate of rise of the sea level is thus much smaller than thought."

 

https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/nleng-2020-0007/html

[Old Koreelah]

It’s not all Doom and Gloom; mankind has already shown we can get together to fix things:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-58874831

[Dax]

On 25/10/2021 at 1:17 PM, Old Koreelah said:

It’s not all Doom and Gloom; mankind has already shown we can get together to fix things:

It's the fossil fuel industries juggernaut we have to deal with and fossil fuel extraction and use is accelerating, not going down. Add the never ending clearing of forests emptying the seas of life and we are going backwards fast.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Dax