The climate change debate continues.

[facthunter]

I prefer "their lips move " as the indicator. It's a massive insult as they presume we are stupid, if they think we will believe them , and we aren't are we??? Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

"I prefer "their lips move "

 

Like cows chewing (gum) the cud,

 

or

 

having a big yawn.

 

BUT

 

if talking, they're lying again.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Marty_d]

So today in Australia the QLD government rolled over and passed Adani's groundwater plan.

 

Meanwhile, in a sensible country...

 

World's largest sovereign wealth fund to dump billions in coal investments

 

 

[facthunter]

They will address the groundwater problems "as they go". They haven't found the source spring of the flow even yet which was a basic requirement.. What a con job. and the federal minister who passed their part of it under threat went missing inaction . It's all OK on the northern front. It will be two years before the first lump of Coal emerges. That's what Adani's Australian boss said. The XXXX is flowing. Clives diet is put off for a while. Not much certainty in any of this. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

... Not much certainty in any of this. Nev

I disagree, Nev.

 

We can be certain that some jobs will be created during the set-up stage.

 

Those who proposed this stupid hole in the ground will celebrate and reward their supporters.

 

The Australian economy will continue further out on the coal limb, ignoring the huge potential of renewables.

 

If it actually gets into production, the mine will be largely automated, employing very few Australians.

 

Southern coalfields will be closed, leading to job losses there.

 

No royalties or taxes will be paid to Australia.

 

When the project is found to be financially unviable, the company will go broke, leaving lots of people unpaid.

 

They will leave a hole in the ground, the place will never be the same.

 

The mine will use more water than they claimed, will bugger up the aquifer and the local environment.

 

Locals will blame the job losses on those evil greenies.

 

 

[Yenn]

Meanwhile the governments will be un accountable. Oh what a pity that the black Headed finch in now extinct. What a pity that there is no underground water for the farmers and graziers, but we could not have foreseen this problem, so vote for us again so that our responsible government can get the clean up done now that Adani have pulled out leaving a massive pile of overburden and no employment. As we said Adani did provide jobs, just not as many as we spruiked up and look at all the cheap houses on the market from those ex employees who cannot afford to pay their mortgages.

 

One bright spot is all the Royalties paid by Adani and the company tax they paid. There was a good TV program that comes to mind about that Pie in the Sky.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Bet the LNP party coffers get a top up; lots of ways to bribe politicians and parties without being noticed, especially now that we won't be getting a federal corruption watchdog.

 

 

[facthunter]

Yes. Certainty of uncertainty. and greed above all other factors. 2 years before you see a lump of coal from there unless they recycle the one sco mo and Bonerboy juggled and joked about and pretend it's AD ANY coal. Polished and lacquered so you don't get dirty hands touching it.. The royalties will be lucky to cover the damage done, when it fails. Yenn. The Adani chiefs money is secure in the Caymans and can't be touched if it all goes belly up. Nev

 

 

[nomadpete]

Oh, for goodness sake, stop bleating about it.

 

We all knew, or should have known right from the very start, that Adani was going to get approved. I suspect the only reason that it took so long, was to try and improve the 'beneficial' relationship between Adani and the government.

 

 

[facthunter]

No I actually didn't think it would make it There's too many things they have not satisfied. I think it's b important and the climate debate continues is the topic, so sorry you don't approve. Nev

 

 

[willedoo]

Nev, does that mean you're not going to discontinue the climate debate continues debate?

 

 

[facthunter]

No, I'll probably continue to keep "bleating" about it .Nev

 

 

[nomadpete]

I can't discontinue my continued cynical view of our corrosive banana republic political gangster governance.

 

Ok. I do realise we aren't a republic.

 

Ok. I also know we don't rely on a banana economy. Substitute coal there but it doesn't have the same 'ring' to it.

 

 

[nomadpete]

My point was, that once some multinational mob proposed a multibillion dollar get rich quick scheme at our expense, our government will rubber stamp it regardless of what risks the dreaded greenie infested EPA research warns us of.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

After climate scientists were hammered by the denialist media for making a few mistakes, they became very cautious in their predictions. They shouldn't have.

 

Scientists amazed as Canadian permafrost thaws 70 years early - Reuters

 

 

[Bruce]

That permafrost report is right in line with that professor who is going around saying how humans will be extinct in ten years.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Over a billion people to our near north depend on the great rivers that are fed by Himalayman meltwater.

 

Now that water supply is in jeopardy.

 

Spy satellites reveal rapid Himalayan glacier melt

 

Wonder which rich, empty country these climate change refugees will head to?

 

Climate Change and Its Impact on our World’s Major Rivers – Part 1: The Rivers of Asia

 

 

[facthunter]

The Himalayas ice melt is the big issue . Billions of people depend on it staying as it is to supply water reliably to the river systems . Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

That permafrost report is right in line with that professor who is going around saying how humans will be extinct in ten years.

Things are looking pretty crook, Bruce, but I doubt our species will die out- we're too diverse and adaptable.

 

But- western civilization sits on a precarious knife edge. It wouldn't take much to totally derail a few centuries of technological progress. We've all become so specialised that a short disruption in global trade could unzip the whole lot. (Australia has about two weeks' supply of liquid fuel; your supermarket has three days' worth of food...)

 

Which humans will service? In "developed" countries it might be the prudent and the downright nastiest.

 

In more traditional societies, people still know how to grow food, make clothing and tools and build houses.

 

In past disasters a crucial factor in survival has been the strength of community bonds.

 

How will ours cope?

 

 

[facthunter]

There's little" Buffer" in Our system. It would rapidly fail where less developed systems can adapt . We have become utterly dependent on supermarkets,. which will be chaos as soon as people start hoarding. Nev

 

 

[Bruce]

I agree we as a species are too adaptable to die out. We can actually party on cockroaches..It's just what we foolishly call civilization which is in danger.

 

Anyway, does a species which spends most of its money fighting each other deserve to survive?

 

Imagine a star trek story where they visit some multi-generation space ship. On this enormous ship, the inhabitants have divided into warring factions, and when Spock etc tell them to stop fighting each other and do some urgent maintenance work, they react with disbelief.

 

I reckon that's us.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Natural CO2 is supposed to be about 300 parts per million, man-made CO2 is supposed to be about 100 parts per million.

 

That means that one additional molecule of CO2 per ten thousand other molecules has significantly caused warming and is THE control knob for climate temperature.

 

That is really a dumb idea to get people to believe and ruin the economy and end access to low cost, abundant, reliable energy.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

If you want to read some well-researched arguments that are not alarmist, I recommend the list compiled by Peter Gill. I have read some but by no means all of these.

 

Books that tell a different storyRev11.pdf

 

Books that tell a different storyRev11.pdf

[Old Koreelah]

...That is really a dumb idea to get people to believe and ruin the economy and end access to low cost, abundant, reliable energy.

This is the crap constantly put out by the fossil fuel industry and the people they pay.

 

No different to the campaigns defending the asbestos and tobacco industries.

 

Transitioning our economy to renewables would kick off an economic boom. Despite a decade of being undermined by the federal LNP, renewables have generated a jobs boom and are now cheaper than coal power.

 

2018 was boom year for renewables despite political chaos, report finds - News - Anygator.com

 

 

[facthunter]

Wind is bringing down power costs in UK. Coal is yesterdays solution and today's problem. Fossil fuels are getting more expensive. (We take the easy stuff first) and eventually will fight WARS over the reserves where as renewables offer an unlimited low cost source that doesn't diminish and make affordable power available to the Poor.in remote areas with minimum or NO grid. The minimum cost of coal is known and rising and is well above what the poor can afford for their own use.. Likewise Uranium and any other atomic process at the present. Costs are easily calculated. Grid based power supplies are there for making huge profits as they are essentially a monopoly. The myriad suppliers are only letterheads in the main. who just add on their cost (usually about a 1/4). Overseas entities should never get to own things like grids. In Vic they never see a coat of paint on their poles. How long would Sydney 's Coathanger last if it wasn't painted? Nev