The climate change debate continues.

[octave]

In the cities of Melbourne & Sydney,At the moment we ( in Sydney ) can't see the aircraft over-flying us do to OUR bad air pollution. ( mist & smoke MAKE smog )

 

So solar will NOT BE AT PEAK POWER !.

 

SPACESAILOR

Reduction in solar production due to pollution haze in Los Angeles and London a whopping 2%

 

"However, even modern haze is still reducing sunlight in cities. Scientists find that in Delhi air pollution over the city is reducing the efficiency of solar panels by between 12% and 17%, depending on the type of photovoltaic technology. Losses are between 9% and 13% in Beijing, and around 2% in London and Los Angeles."

 

Pollutionwatch: hazy air of cities 'reducing solar panel efficiency'

 

 

[Litespeed]

Spacey I think you are " taking the piss".

 

Who would pay $6 a bottle for water? At that price it is cheaper to drink local champagnes.

 

Last time I checked my toilet, and it was flushed it did not use bottled water.

 

I know see your problem, you should use water from a invention called a tap.

 

 

[spacesailor]

Roof top panels will only give a Left-over amount ,when house-owners have had their potion.

 

OR remove lots of housing to get sufficient area for a solar-farm.

 

OR perhaps close the harbour to "Float" the panels !. ( Its in Botany Bay ).?

 

Now whos taking the P " taking the piss".

 

Check the supermarket price of a bottle of water. ( close to $4. )

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Bruce]

Octave, could you tell us about your fridge? I wanted to go off the grid but decided the fridge was the killer. Maybe I was too pessimistic.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

... The Russians have proved they can not be trusted with the tech and regularly have accidents that they refuse to admit...

Yep. They covered up terrible accidents...

 

BBC World Service - Witness History, The Mayak Nuclear Disaster

 

...and it's still happening.

 

Russia medics fear nuclear blast contamination

 

Russian officials blame food for traces of radiation in doctor treating blast victims

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...remove lots of housing to get sufficient area for a solar-farm.OR perhaps close the harbour to "Float" the panels !. ( Its in Botany Bay )...

Who says solar panels have to displace anything else? If all new roofs were covered in them our cities would be exporting power!

 

 

[octave]

Octave, could you tell us about your fridge? I wanted to go off the grid but decided the fridge was the killer. Maybe I was too pessimistic.

 

It was some time ago now, we lived there between 1990 and 2011. We had a fridge that was converted to 12 volts by these people Solar Power & Batteries | Hot Water & Pumps | Rainbow Power Company hard now to remember the details. Our system was pretty small so refrigeration was one of the challenges. Some of our neighbours used large gas refrigerators.

 

Something I find a little frustrating is that 8 years later there have been huge advances in technology. For most of our time there we used quartz halogen lights which at the time were relatively efficient although they were $13 each which was a lot back then. I am renovating the house that I live in now in the suburbs and I have installed LED downlights 10 watts each x 6 in the lounge, they are so bright that I have them on a dimmer and they are always turned down. They use as little as 1 old fashioned 60w incandescent bulb, if only they had been available back then.

 

Likewise, the solar panels we purchased in 1991 were 60-watt panels $595 each today a 60 panel is $156.

 

At the time living off-grid was not particularly easy to achieve and did take some compromises. We had a small system with 12-volt lighting and an inverter. Washing day we would fire up the generator to run the washing machine and charge the batteries if they were low.

 

I think living off the grid is achievable but I would suggest probably not worth it purely from an economic view. For us, it was economic because we were not near mains electricity and it would have cost a fortune. We did enjoy smugly saying to the people in town "power cut? no, we didn't notice it". It also gave us great pleasure to be the master of our own empire.

 

 

[octave]

Check the supermarket price of a bottle of water. ( close to $4. )

Woolworths 10 litres for $4. It pays to shop around. But yes the more expensive water is about the price you say. I can't for the life of me understand why people buy bottled water.

 

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[spacesailor]

I couldn't lug A 10 litre bottle of water Anywhere

 

It's called" Convenience".

 

NO Chlorine & hopefully No Flouride. (for the toothless people( they are both deadly poisons))

 

spacesailor

 

 

[octave]

I couldn't lug A 10 litre bottle of water Anywhere

It's called" Convenience".

 

spacesailor

I just go to the tap, even more convenient

 

 

[spacesailor]

A TAP

 

with a mile (metre) of polypipe following you through the woods.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Litespeed]

What's wrong with filling up a bottle at a tap and taking it with you?

 

Virtually free, esp. If you use a public tap or servo or neighbour or even your home one.

 

Sorry old mate, your argument is full of holes.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Cannock - 17:05 BST - Sunday 25th August - Temp 35.4 C - CAVOK not a wisp in the sky - wind Zero - Humidity 74%.

 

A sticky night awaits.

 

AND WHAT THE BLOODY HELL WERE YOUR LADS DOING AT HEADINGLY TODAY FCS ? ? ?

 

JEEBUS, THEY HAVE THE GAME WON AND THEN BLOODY WELL GIVE IT AWAY. . . ? ? ? ?

 

I'M TAKING MUCH STICK FROM SO-CALLED 'MATES' HERE AT THE AIRFIELD and keep denying that I know anything about Australia. . . .Having also just lost £3.90 at the bookies. . .

 

This is a sample ( via Email ) of the $hit I'm going to get tonight

 

Ned Kelly, crocodile Dundee, Nellie Melba, Priscilla Queen of the Desert, Sir Les Patterson your boys took a hell of a beating!!

 

 

[facthunter]

People here knew nothing about Darwin of any substance and certainly nothing at all about Broome.

 

Ps It's not over YET Phil but I don't bet on it. You Poms and those who live in her need something to cheer you up. ef all else going good these days mostly due to your own actions, but you won this one. Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

I concede defeat on Kurnell desalination plant.

 

"Sydney Desalination Plant - Wikipedia "

 

Yes Wind farms Are powering the plant, Somehow.

 

I always thought those wind-farms were for the nation Not for Sydney Water's desal plant.

 

We live & learn a little, bit by bit.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

The wind and sun are there whether you choose to use them or not. The existing "PLAYERS" would lose control if THEY become the main source of Power. Storage and flexibility is what we need, NOT BASELOAD (so called). What caused the problem is NOT part of the solution. The "Vested Interests" are Just that. The" Worn Out Coal" is Cheap as the Capital cost has been amortised long ago. Now reliability and its pollution are the downsides. 50 year old plant would have no spare parts available as they are obselete. No responsible lender will FUND such RISKY money as is building "New Coal" without guarantee of return in the current environment. and it will only become worse, not better, with time as unfortunately the consequences of inaction become more obvious to all at which time we will be up for a lot more cost, and see more damage than now. Surely the greatest IRONY is having Angus Taylor the Minister for Energy AND THE ENVIRONMENT. when he's a Coal Industry front man. Nev

 

 

[Litespeed]

Angus Taylor, Matt Canavan and Scomo.

 

The three horsemen of the Apocalypse.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Nero fiddled while Rome burned. Our leaders are worse. They have no shortage of expert advice and know they could turn this around, yet they meekly do the bidding of their big-money controllers. Our children will not judge them well.

 

https://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/the-amazon-fires-and-the-dilemma-for-climate-scientists-20190825-p52kiq.html

 

Is it too late to prevent climate change? – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet

 

 

[Bruce]

A nuclear power plant well away from cropping country and big enough to provide power for most of Australia was what I was referring to. Alas it will never happen because we are too stupid to see the benefit. And why could you not recirculate the cooling water?

 

If stored solar and wind could be made cheaper, I would like that but have yet to be convinced that it is possible. The price of electricity here should be the cheapest in the world, not the most expensive.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

A nuclear power plant well away from cropping country and big enough to provide power for most of Australia was what I was referring to. Alas it will never happen because we are too stupid to see the benefit. And why could you not recirculate the cooling water?If stored solar and wind could be made cheaper, I would like that but have yet to be convinced that it is possible. The price of electricity here should be the cheapest in the world, not the most expensive.

Don't blame expensive power on renewables; it's largely caused by bad investment decisions by government.

 

The right wingers in charge of our country praise market forces, yet they are openly talking about SUBSIDISING coal-burners when big capital has already decided that renewables and storage are cheaper than new coal or nuclear.

 

 

[octave]

A nuclear power plant well away from cropping country and big enough to provide power for most of Australia was what I was referring to. Alas it will never happen because we are too stupid to see the benefit. And why could you not recirculate the cooling water?If stored solar and wind could be made cheaper, I would like that but have yet to be convinced that it is possible. The price of electricity here should be the cheapest in the world, not the most expensive.

 

According to the ACC enquiry environmental costs are not the main driver of power price increases.

 

The ACCC’s preliminary findings are that, on average across the NEM, a 2015-16 residential bill was $1,524 (excluding GST). This average residential bill was made up of:

 

• network costs (48 per cent)
   
  
• wholesale costs (22 per cent)
   
  
• environmental costs (7 per cent)
   
  
• retail and other costs (16 per cent)
   
  
• retail margins (8 per cent).
   
  

 

As far as nuclear goes, I am not philosophically opposed, I just don't think at this point the figures stack up. Nuclear power plants are not built purely with local expertise money or ownership. The cost of building is enormous and the time required is long. Hinkley Point C

 

Hinkley Point C nuclear power station - Wikipedia

 

Certainly not cheap or easy.

 

By the way this I found this video interesting. It is not hysterically anti-nuclear but does describe the process and problems.

 

 

Owners and operators must be responsible for the security and safety for hundreds of years into the future.

 

 

[Litespeed]

What does it take to convince you Bruce?

 

Every study demonstrates solar is by far the cheapest power even with storage added when compared to any new coal or gas or nuclear. And will only get cheaper.

 

That is why business with no subsidy is pouring billions into it.

 

Follow the money if you refuse to accept science and economics.

 

You know humans need oxygen to breath or do you dispute that as well?

 

 

[Litespeed]

So a country with considerable experience in nuclear, builds a new plant that is already deemed will be the most expensive power in history and needs a government indemnity for any damage and locked in prices that are massively overpriced for decades.

 

And needs the government to cover the finance costs if it fails.

 

Estimated to cost power users over 80 billion pounds more than other power prices at today's costs. Prices that will only go down for renewables in the future, so that cost is very optimistic.

 

Brilliant.

 

Is this what you want Bruce?

 

You can bet we would do a much worse deal than even that.

 

 

[willedoo]

Yep. They covered up terrible accidents...

...and it's still happening.

 

Russia medics fear nuclear blast contamination

I read the first reports in the Russian press of that engine explosion and thought it sounded like a cover up. They made no mention of the isotope powered engine being involved, but finished the article by saying no abnormal radiation levels were recorded at the explosion site. Now the weather service is saying that levels spiked 16 times above normal for a couple of hours in the city of Severodvinsk, 47k away. Even though that is a very small reading in itself, the accident site would have to be fairly high to give such a reading 47klm. away.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Nero fiddled while Rome burned. Our leaders are worse. They have no shortage of expert advice and know they could turn this around, yet they meekly do the bidding of their big-money controllers. Our children will not judge them well.

https://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/the-amazon-fires-and-the-dilemma-for-climate-scientists-20190825-p52kiq.html

 

Is it too late to prevent climate change? – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet

It's not just the leaders.

 

Labor went to the election with a raft of policies that were based on expert advice.

 

The voters rejected them.

 

The Greens have the environmental policies most aligned with the science.

 

They lost votes.

 

The LNP had nothing.

 

They won.