The climate change debate continues.

[Old Koreelah]

... Please, all you greens out there, speak to the people on the land, people who actually know what the situation is...

 

I didn't catch his comments, Robinsm, but nothing would surprise me. 

 

But... Please don't assume all greens are ignorant of rural and environmental issues. Many greens live on the land and quite a few are volunteer fire fighters. And yes, many farmers are starting to get very concerned about changing climate.

 

On the other hand, many rural-dwellers, some of my family included, spend their life surrounded by endless nature and still think we can go on using it up, as our forefathers did.

 

 

[octave]

Best argument for not believing climate change comes from the green leader today in a statement about the Queenland bushfires.   .   Di Natalie is rapidly becoming another speak before you think expert.   Please, all you greens out there, speak to the people on the land, people who actually know what the situation is and live with its effects before you get on your high horses in your city dwellings, turn off your airconditioning and actually think using facts and real world evidence not rubbish spouted by "experts" with no experience.   There may be a problem but walking off the cliff with everyone else because some "expert"says so turns people into sheep.   Talk to real life people living with the land and climate, not high rise plastic tree huggers...

 

 

 

Tree huggers like NASA etc.?    That argument is similar to anti vaxxers and anti evolutionists, the experts are making it up.    Bottom line is this If I am unfortunate enough to get cancer I will consult an oncologist.  If 9 of the "experts" give advice that is contradicted by 1 I am going with the 9.    

 

You dont really provide any evidence you just warn us to not listen to experts (or at least the ones you dont agree with)

 

Of course it is important to listen to the views of farmers

 

https://www.farmersforclimateaction.org.au/climate_change_and_agriculture

 

https://www.futurefarmers.com.au/young-carbon-farmers/carbon-farming/climate-threats-to-australiaa-agriculture

 

https://www.foreground.com.au/environment/the-farmers-fighting-climate-change/

 

People talk about climate alarmists but I would like to point out that there are also renewable energy alarmists.  Australia has a very small percentage of its power generated by renewables, there are countries with much more renewable generation. By and large these countries are not economic basket cases.

 

The fact is that the denial club is quite small and getting smaller.   Whilst governments tend to be bad at this sort of thing private enterprise is surging ahead.    

 

BHP  https://www.bhp.com/media-and-insights/news-releases/2019/07/bhp-to-invest-us400m-to-address-climate-change

 

BP  https://www.bp.com/en/global/corporate/sustainability/climate-change.html 

 

https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/business-sites/en/global/corporate/pdfs/sustainability/group-reports/bp-sustainability-report-2018.pdf

 

BP rolling out EV charging network

 

https://www.electrive.com/2019/08/15/bp-opens-150kw-chargers-at-uk-service-stations/

 

I am a bit over debating this.   I am happy to discuss the merrits of the evdence but other than the odd graph not much is actually presented here.    I will take EASA, NASA, CSIRO,  Brithish accademy of science if science, I could go on but the list is too long over the odd retired geologist or meteorologist or Andrew Bolt.

 

Aas long as we take a measured and science based approach to moving to the next energy age, I do not forsee massive problems.  If the climate science turns out to be wrong then we have just moved to the next phase long before fossil fuels run out. If the deniers are wrong..........

 

Quote from a Mining Journal -

 

"The electric revolution and digital transformation are two parallel streams that are coming together. High-capacity batteries and smart communication will rapidly change the way we operate.

 

"We live at a very interesting time."

 

History not repeating, perhaps.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

 Farmers records are showing the REALITY of climate change, everywhere.. . How much glacial  and polar melt, sea acidity and C02 % increase do you need?. Higher sea temps make fiercer tornadoes. It's the extra moisture the energy comes from. More extreme climate cycles not happening?  HIGHEST temps of many kinds recorded increasingly.  What newspapers are you reading? . Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

" It's the extra moisture the energy comes from. "

 

One point often overlooked is that the more saltier, our sea gets less evaporation will happen, Over the entire world.

 

The smaller out atmosphere gets, the more radiation from the sun will get to the ground & cook the plant life.

 

Just like Mars !.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

" It's the extra moisture the energy comes from. "

 

One point often overlooked is that the more saltier, our sea gets less evaporation will happen, Over the entire world.

 

The smaller out atmosphere gets, the more radiation from the sun will get to the ground & cook the plant life.

 

Just like Mars !.

 

spacesailor

 

Spacey I'm not aware of the sea getting saltier; in fact I'd expect that, around the margins of Greenland, Antarctica, etc. the opposite to be the case, as huge amounts of fresh water ice melts.

 

How is the atmosphere getting smaller?

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

For those who suspect good government would continue without politicians; looks our top public servants are ahead of the game:

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-11/government-appears-unprepared-for-climate-change/11492886

 

 

[Yenn]

Global warming may or may not be real, but the last few days show that there is a drying of the climate. the fires in the Gold Coast hinterland are unusual, because that was rain forest that burned. I fear that it will never recover unless we get a few good wet seasons and we haven't had them lately.

 

As far as our leaders go, they have their heads in the sand. I cannot see how they can be so stupid and un caring about our future. but then again I cannot see how we could vote for the ratbags.

 

 

[Marty_d]

It's not rocket science.  You want something done about climate change, don't vote for the LNP.  People seem to have forgotten that in the last election.

 

 

[willedoo]

I was thinking that there must be three categories of views on the subject. Firstly, those who don't believe climate change is happening. The second group, those who believe it's happening, is divided between those who believe humans have a lot to do with it and those who don't.

 

I just read that the Russians have found five previously unknown islands in the Arctic that have been exposed by glacial melt. It's hard to imagine how people could think it's not happening.

 

 

[willedoo]

Global warming may or may not be real, but the last few days show that there is a drying of the climate. the fires in the Gold Coast hinterland are unusual, because that was rain forest that burned. I fear that it will never recover unless we get a few good wet seasons and we haven't had them lately.

 

As far as our leaders go, they have their heads in the sand. I cannot see how they can be so stupid and un caring about our future. but then again I cannot see how we could vote for the ratbags.

 

Yenn, many years ago it got so dry that a section of sub tropical rain forest on my place burnt. I've noticed that the dry forest land on the northern slopes doesn't change much - basically the same species grow back. But the rain forest doesn't like fire; it changes a lot of the vegetation. I guess a lot of the plants are shade loving softer types and when they lose their shade canopy, they really struggle to re establish. It took many, many years to recover, and some species might have gone for good, I don't really know.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

The Australian Energy Market Operator has taken the dramatic move of slashing the allowable output from five solar farms in Victoria and NSW by half, because of issues over “system strength” that appear to have suddenly emerged.

 

https://reneweconomy.com.au/aemo-slashes-output-of-five-big-solar-farms-by-half-due-to-voltage-issues-42232/?fbclid=IwAR34sVkSHlZhTyqLll7-VQpXsRHl8psONoAcO9eHgp4DH3B8StlQQ7BPcOw

 

 

 

[Marty_d]

It seems that the problems occur because they haven't upgraded the infrastructure and don't manage the network data properly.

 

Which again comes back to a complete lack of policy direction from the government.  This change is happening and will continue to happen, but they sit back and talk about nuclear and "clean coal" instead of providing some certainty to the sector.

 

 

[spacesailor]

You mean that "Golden infrastructure" !.

 

It's still being upgraded, New road lighting with shiny poles as well now.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Bruce]

Who exactly is the "australian energy market operator?" Who hires and fires them?  where do they get paid from?

 

 

[facthunter]

 Even "insiders" in the LNP state "they" are totally incapable of dealing with climate change. Unless you are a denier I doubt you will get pre selected. The National Farmers Federation and BHP  among many other reputable organisations believe it's man made, It's happening and we won't meet targets we have agreed to, even though they say repeatedly "we are"  but internal operatives want to pull out of Paris agreement. WHY Because they are NOT likely to meet its conditions and they want to keep mining. Eventually trade sanctions will adversely affect Australia for it's self interested approach. How many extreme adverse records have to be broken before some deniers admit, things are now NOT normal in a way that was predicted about 40 years ago now. Sea temps and acidity are measurable. Glaciers are diminishing not increasing anywhere. When the  ice in Tibet is gone billions of people will starve but long before that ORDER will break down when many have no suitable place to live. The rich with their airconditioners won't be able to build fences around their Oasis style refuges high enough to protect themselves .. People in Queensland must be starting to think can one live HERE? Nev

 

 

[willedoo]

 People in Queensland must be starting to think can one live HERE? Nev

 

Nev, I'm one of the number who are bailing out. 4th. generation here, but two factors are driving the change - heat and overcrowding, with the heat being the bigger factor. At the moment there's a two way migration. Queenslanders going south and southerners who don't realize what they are getting themselves into, moving north.

 

 

[Yenn]

I have lived in Qld since 1968 and it may be a bit hotter, but not enough to cause it to be uncomfortable. Don't forgrt one of the things making it hotter is that most modern houses are not designed to be habitable without air conditioning. I designed and built my home and it doesn't have aircon. it may get a bit warm for a month or so if we het high humidity, but it is lack of humidity which is one of the problems of climate change.

 

No doubt the climate is changing, I have run out of all except drinking water and if the Council had their way when I built the house I would not have had any tank water piped to the house.

 

Beurocratic decisions are at the root of a lot of our current problems, from fire damage to housing liveability and more. 

 

 

[willedoo]

Last summer here was a fairly normal one, and the last two winters were good as well. But what sealed it for me was 2016/2017. Each summer was five months of unrelenting heat and humidity, and the winters were about 5 or 6 days in length. Not saying it's related to climate change, just that it's too hot for me.

 

Another factor for people like myself who live on a timbered block is that year by year, the trees get taller, and the regrowth gets thicker, blocking more of any available breeze. And council won't let people prune branches or control regrowth. Always amuses me how they brag about their green credentials with every rates notice, especially when you see the total destruction they approve with development applications.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

 

Beurocratic decisions are at the root of a lot of our current problems, from fire damage to housing liveability and more. 

 

 

 

So true, Yenn.

 

We built our solar house in the '80s, when every coffee table had books about innovative, efficient home design.

 

We incorporated ideas that worked for earlier generations: Verandahs, rainwater tanks, gravity tanks for water pressure, a wood stove and home-made solar water-heating.

 

A generation later, people have forgotten about solar houses. We toured project homes with our kid and could find NOTHING innovative. Most homes built today are boring, inefficient and bland- and totally dependent on their connection to external services. When those services break down, as they sometimes do, our suburbs are ripe for chaos

 

 

[spacesailor]

Sydney's water shortage !.

 

How much longer will we be Flushing good drinking water through our toilets.

 

Who's going to invent a grey water tank system for the toilet ?.

 

It doesn't matter if there's bits off the dinner plates going into the sewage system, It will cope.

 

Soon be seeing the old advert, If it's yellow let it mellow. If it's brown flush it down.

 

Silly me, I thought it funny. 

 

spacesailor

 

 

[facthunter]

 For the driest Country on earth we certainly aren't managing our water very well. Live in the City .  Have ducted airconditioning and a pool and be completely disconnected from reality.  ALL cars are airconditioned  now. It's just accepted. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

The best definition of technology:

 

The art of arranging the world so that we don't have to experience it.

 

 

[spacesailor]

I don't think the Car AC, is a problem, (except for acclimatising to the heat).

 

A different problem with housing using electricity to run that AC, Cooling the inside while making the outside hotter.

 

Put those Solar-panels on the roof to provide shade, then connect them to that AC, Not to the coal fired powerstation !.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[willedoo]

Sydney's water shortage !.

 

How much longer will we be Flushing good drinking water through our toilets.

 

Who's going to invent a grey water tank system for the toilet ?.

 

It doesn't matter if there's bits off the dinner plates going into the sewage system, It will cope.

 

Soon be seeing the old advert, If it's yellow let it mellow. If it's brown flush it down.

 

Silly me, I thought it funny. 

 

spacesailor

 

spacey, I didn't have to invent one, just went to Bunnings and bought a $2 bucket. A couple of years ago during a drought, I disconnected the sink plumbing to drop straight into a bucket which flushes the toilet. Never got around to hooking it back up, so it's become routine now. As far as 'bits off the dinner plates' goes, it does sometimes look as if someone's chundered in the dunny bowl, but it saves water. You can get away with stuff like that if you don't live in town and don't have a better half.

 

 

[willedoo]

Well, I didn't say anything. Clicked the wrong button and don't know how to delete a post.