The climate change debate continues.

[spacesailor]

I tried similar just the bucket in the sink,  but the missus didn't like that at all .LoL

 

I Just posted a bit about the drought, In "Gripes".

 

Looking a lot like Mars out west.

 

sacesailor

 

 

[willedoo]

I tried similar just the bucket in the sink,  but the missus didn't like that at all .LoL

 

I Just posted a bit about the drought, In "Gripes".

 

Looking a lot like Mars out west.

 

sacesailor

 

Only problem with the bucket is you need a big bucket or keep an eye on it so it doesn't overflow. Sometimes if it's getting too full I decant a bit and water the verandah plants with it. The beauty of living on a bush block, you can do a lot of stuff like that. With two loads of washing, I can trap the rinse cycle water from the first to use as the wash water for the second. The other side of the coin is that you are on limited tank water, so you need to do this stuff when it's as dry as it is now.

 

 

[spacesailor]

I just connect a hose to the washing machine  let it all go onto the garden, Suds & all, (thinking all the rinse cycle will dilute the suds, ).

 

Nice green grass Until under the Jacaranda tree, not watering that thing, It grows too quick.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

In Japan many toilets have a little hand-wash basin on top of the cistern. When you flush, water runs over your hands, then into the cistern. I've seen some at Bunnings.

 

Earlier generations thought wasting water was sinful; when we moved into town my mum kept a plastic basin in the sink to catch water that would otherwise have gone down the drain. Her garden appreciated the water, as well as the extra nutrients.

 

 

[facthunter]

Well you could have edited it straight away and hidden your error. The time to edit is rather limited. Anyhow no one died or was injured in the production. Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

". Anyhow no one died or was injured in the production. Nev"

 

Heart-broken & humiliated.

 

One Drako flyer.

 

Such a shame, to end his "pride & joy in a heap, But happily The only injury, His wife's broken fingernail.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Yenn]

Why use water at all to get rid of human waste. there are good composting toilets available now. The sewerage system is one of the biggest expenses for local government.

 

I have built and upgraded systems for Ipswich and Gladstone and even back last century the costs were staggering. I hate to think what they are now.

 

 

[willedoo]

Why use water at all to get rid of human waste. there are good composting toilets available now. The sewerage system is one of the biggest expenses for local government.

 

I have built and upgraded systems for Ipswich and Gladstone and even back last century the costs were staggering. I hate to think what they are now.

 

How would the composting toilets go in the city on flat blocks. I thought you needed a bit of height or space under to fit them. A two story house would work good, but what about a ground level house.

 

 

[spacesailor]

The Poms of Old, had them, (composting toilets) In the days of Knights.

 

But it was a long LONG climb, up the tower to get to the Loo.

 

I bet a few didn't make it too. LoL

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Methusala]

G'day all, I'm a plumber in an earlier life and have been interested in composting toilets (but not so to have taken the "plunge",  so to speak). The link below is to an interesting Scandinavian example. Would be interested in anyone's real experience. 

 

Regards Don. 

 

https://www.ecoethic.ca/products_wl.html 

 

 

[Cosmick]

Sh1t hey, very interesting

 

 

[Bruce]

Here's a debating point in the climate change discussion...

 

Climate-change opposer are doing more harm to the future lives of our kids than the jailed pedophiles ever did. Therefore climate-change opposition is worse than pedophilia and should be punished accordingly.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Here's a debating point in the climate change discussion...

 

Climate-change opposer are doing more harm to the future lives of our kids than the jailed pedophiles ever did. Therefore climate-change opposition is worse than pedophilia and should be punished accordingly.

 

Hmm, that raises the spectre of thought police, being jailed for your beliefs, all the kinds of things we really don't want to go back to.

 

As much as I think that people who refuse to accept the science are slightly dotty, I don't think we can blame the effects of climate change on only those who refuse to accept it.  How about a climate change denier who nonetheless lives in an inner-city location so doesn't drive, has a flat in an eco-friendly apartment (purely because of the view), and happens to be a vegetarian?  Their carbon footprint would be much less than mine, so strictly speaking I should be charged more for damaging the climate even though I accept the science.

 

There's only one way to really combat climate change - price it.  Items wrapped in plastic should be taxed far more than items that aren't.  Put a price on carbon.  (Julia tried it but that f*wit Abbott wrecked it).  Give massive subsidies on electric vehicles and infrastructure until the market catches up.  Make all public transport free (and much more of it) and tax fuel til it's $5 a litre.  Stop giving a free ride to the airlines which would lift fares to what they should be, which will reduce unnecessary travel.  Fix the electricity networks until they can handle the fluctuations of solar and wind, invest in massive battery farms, and then tax fossil fuel generation until it's unsustainable.  Put a ban on any new coal mining and make a proper plan to phase out existing.

 

Would I like all this?  No.  It would impact me greatly.  But if we want to be honest about combating climate change then we all have to feel the pain so our kids and grandkids have a chance at a reasonable life.

 

 

[octave]

Here's a debating point in the climate change discussion...

 

Climate-change opposer are doing more harm to the future lives of our kids than the jailed pedophiles ever did. Therefore climate-change opposition is worse than pedophilia and should be punished accordingly.

 

One of these things is caused by unawareness  and or wanting to cling to the past (in my view) and the other is caused the direct exploitation of another human whilst knowing the harm caused.

 

By way of an example buying a consumer product that is made with child labour is bad if you are aware of the origin and method of production.  Most people are unaware or at least try not to think about it.   Yes it has a levell of wrongness about it but human nature being what it is we are able to ignore wrongness that is not right in front of us.   In terms of climate change I do  not think shaming or name calling ever works. I am a strong believer in information and data.    I think people find it hard to accept that anything they do (or I) could be anything less than wonderful.   

 

Personally I try to do the right things but I am self aware to understand that I still drive my car, fly a plane and travel overseas.  For this reason I think we need to tackle these problems at a society level so that we can maintain a modern comfortable life.  

 

 

[facthunter]

 You are entitled to your own beliefs, but not your OWN facts.  Plenty are peddling lies for advantage and profit. That's FRAUD. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Trump has created "a culture of fear where scientists are being intimidated."

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-silenced-meet-the-climate-whistle-blowers-muzzled-by-the-trump-administration/

 

 Even in the worst days of the Cold War, Soviet scientists could speak out; what has happened in the Land of the Free?

 

 

[Yenn]

Is it really science or is it statistics. We hear that carbon in  the atmosphere has been increasing. We hear that temperatures are increasing. It is statistics that puts the two together and says one causes the other. Also some of the statistics are a bit dodgy. Temperature used to be measured at certain times by someone who read the thermometer. Nowadays it is recorded digitally and the Max temp really the max for the day. The old way I doubt that the max temp occurred at the exact time the thermometer was read, plus the fact that thermometers read to the nearest degree, not decimal point of one.

 

As for sea levels rising. my people live in England, near one of the Cinque Ports, Rye. If sea levels are rising Rye shows no evidence of it. There is only water there at high tide, the rest of the time it is miles inland and dry.

 

I still believe we should reduce our reliance on coal, use sustainable methods of doing everything and definitely go along with taxing plastic packaging.

 

 

[spacesailor]

" Therefore climate-change  position is worse than pedophilia and should be punished accordingly."

 

Only after the conviction, Just like PELL The PREDATOR.

 

"Give massive subsidies on electric vehicles and infrastructure until the market catches up.  Make all public transport free (and much m"

 

The governments did similar, In the days of steam, TAXED the weight of vehicles ,We all know that water weigh's a lot, So steam died on our roads.

 

H Ford had the money & persuasion to get an advantage.

 

I would HATE to live in SnowBall earth  Blooody cold in them days of pre-industry.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[willedoo]

 Personally I try to do the right things but I am self aware to understand that I still drive my car, fly a plane and travel overseas.  For this reason I think we need to tackle these problems at a society level so that we can maintain a modern comfortable life.  

 

No doubt society needs to have a major rethink about how we live our lives going into the future. Even if there was no issue with atmospheric climate change, there's plenty of other examples where we are blotting our copy book. What we are doing is unsustainable.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

 You are entitled to your own beliefs, but not your OWN facts.  Plenty are peddling lies for advantage and profit. That's FRAUD. Nev

 

Yes and there is plenty of fraud going on. The facts are there in historical records. This is not the hottest, wettest,  most turbulent time on record. Seek the facts, don’t drink the Koolaid.

 

 

[octave]

Seek the facts, don’t drink the Koolaid.

 

NASA coolaid?   

 

 

[pmccarthy]

The information is coming from the North American Space Administration's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. WTF? What is a Jet Propulsion laboratory doing in this business, they should be designing rocket motors. Do you believe a spokesman from the Russian space program? Or the Chinese? Why has NASA got this lavishly funded, beautifully presented propaganda site?

 

 

[facthunter]

 Why do we believe any denier who is working in or profits from the coal industry.? Coal is almost pure carbon  so makes much more CO2 than the mass of coal mined, but also releases other unwanted contaminants in the smoke and ash  that were trapped in the sediments  millions of years ago.  Seepage from Vales Point ash now makes eating fish caught in Lake MacQuarie advised against.,  . Temp measurements are done all over the world reliably. Suggesting that many of them are faked is rubbish. CO2 has been monitored  at many places and it passed 400 PPM a considered critical point,years ago. Ocean acidity also..... It's extent and effects on plankton and marine life is not questioned..  I have spent time in the past going over stuff from "selected" experts Like Plimer etc and they all have seriously FLAWED theories as well as motives Not just MY conclusion. OTHER real experts pull his theories apart.  I gain no benefit from acknowledging the Climate issues I wish it wasn't happening, but I DO  together with 97% of qualified climate orientated peer group reviewed  scientists. The same sort of qualified people you trust  all the time for advice on  issues (bar religion) we accept in all relevant matters many times everyday of our lives .  The war on Scientists is a disgrace but an essential part of the misinformation  effort by those who wish to keep profiting regardless of the consequences for the Planet and the rest of us. and it PROVES  to me the weakness of their Case that it's necessary to discredit those who would know the facts.  Nev

 

 

[octave]

The information is coming from the North American Space Administration's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. WTF? What is a Jet Propulsion laboratory doing in this business, they should be designing rocket motors. Do you believe a spokesman from the Russian space program? Or the Chinese? Why has NASA got this lavishly funded, beautifully presented propaganda site?

 

I am sure you are aware that NASA does more than build rockets. i am sure you are aware of it's Earth observation   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Observing_System  JPL is a facilty that mangaged for NASA by Caltec.        So you believe NASAs site is a beautifully funded propagander site.  I feel you need to expand and this.  SoUS government (under Trump) is funding this "propaganda. I think it is fair to ask you to what end?  Under Trump I imagine that the surest path to more funding would be to support Trump's position on climate change ie give us another  few billion and we will produce propaganda that supports your case.   

 

So Peter what other sites are propaganda?    I am guessing CSIRO and Bom as well as Australian Institute of Physics the list is too long to reproduce here.     I guess the geological world may provide you with some support because of course geologists are the natural experts when it comes to the physics of the atmosphere however it seems like most geological bodies accept the science.

 

I guess you believe BHP are drinkers of Koolaide?  https://www.bhp.com/media-and-insights/reports-and-presentations/2019/07/evolving-our-approach-to-climate-change

 

Or perhaps Shell?         Shell oil says it will quit a lobbying group that opposes global climate goals

 

As for Russia and China,  I cannot comment on what an "unnamed spokesman" said without out knowing who they are and what exactly they said.   I do note however that both Russia and China are signatories to the Kyoto agreement and the Paris agreement.

 

The term drinking the Koolaide infers that you think my positions is a little crazy. I would suggest that it is a lot more difficult to support your position.   Your position is contrary to the majority of the scientific community.

 

I did go back a read this whole thread and in our interactions I did pose many questions which mostly  you have not addressed.  I have always posted detailed (I am sure many would say tedious) answers to your questions. 

 

 

[nomadpete]

I think Mr trumpy makes the koolaid.