The climate change debate continues.

[kgwilson]

Phasing out nuclear, coal and gas is an ambitious undertaking for a heavily industrialised country such as Germany. The government has set a deadline to shutter all the country's nuclear plants by 2022 and stop burning coal for electricity by 2038.

 

At the Reuter power plant in Berlin, which supplies 600,000 households in the capital with heat, the solution now includes calcium oxide, also known as quicklime. Vattenfall and Swedish start-up SaltX have been taking advantage of a simple chemical reaction that occurs when quicklime becomes wet: the salt-like grains soak up the water, becoming calcium hydroxide and releasing large amounts of heat in the process. By removing the water again - a process not dissimilar to baking - the substance turns back into calcium oxide.

 

The process essentially mirrors how batteries work, except that instead of electricity, the system stores heat. SaltX says it has also patented a way of covering the quicklime with tiny particles - known as a nano-coating - to prevent it from lumping together after several heating and cooling cycles.

 

"Germany currently has enough installed renewable energy capacity to produce twice as much as it needs, it's just not constant," says Hendrik Roeglin, who oversees the salt storage project for Vattenfall.

 

Rival utility E.ON recently calculated that solar and wind power generated up to 52 gigawatt hours of electricity during peak daylight hours on Easter Monday. Germany's energy consumption at the time was just 49.5 gigawatt hours.

 

And here we have far better conditions to produce renewable energy & the idiocy of conservative thinking is more coal. Unbelievable but true.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Nothing wrong with all that, but in Oz we don’t distribute heat to residents so there really isn’t much opportunity for that process. Germany is reliant on French nuclear for some time, well beyond when they hope to shut down their own nuclear. They have expanded coal production as a stop gap. It is a complicated challenge. We will all get beyond coal for electricity eventually, but managing the transition is a big challenge.

 

 

[spacesailor]

"Sea level is rising, it has been ever since the end of the last ice age"

 

It's not finished until the last snow in the Artic/Antartic has gone.

 

Then "Snowball . Earth" will be no-more.

 

(Germany) "The government has set a deadline to shutter all the country's nuclear plants by 2022 and stop burning coal for electricity by 2038."

 

A before ,. That Government should shut down the Coalburner's first, then the nuclear plants, as less carbon pollution in the 16 year difference.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[octave]

We will all get beyond coal for electricity eventually, but managing the transition is a big challenge.

i would agree with that statement. Managing the transition is a big challenge therefore we need to actually attempt to manage the transition rather than just say it is all too hard and wave chunks of coal around in parliament. I disagree with the statement often made by conservatives "that coal is good for humanity" I also disagree with the other extreme. I would say coal has been good (and bad) for humanity but its time is ending, it can be a managed transition or we can wait until the last minute.

 

That Government should shut down the Coalburner's first, then the nuclear plants

I agree with that.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I just revisited this short TED talk about rapid changes in the Arctic Ocean. Well worth watching

 

Last year we spent a month in Alaska, Yukon and BC and the locals we met talked about the changes they were seeing. As the climate warms, many species are moving north.

 

First Nation people with no cultural memory of mountain lions now find them 1,500km north of their previous range.

 

 

[octave]

But this is the well-established greenhouse effect, not anthropomorphic climate change. I dont know when that was first proposed, perhaps in the 1950s?

"Högbom found that estimated carbon production from industrial sources in the 1890s (mainly coal burning) was comparable with the natural sources.[24] Arrhenius saw that this human emission of carbon would eventually lead to warming. However, because of the relatively low rate of CO

 

production in 1896, Arrhenius thought the warming would take thousands of years, and he expected it would be beneficial to humanity.[24][25] "

 

 

[spacesailor]

"and he expected it would be beneficial to humanity"

 

He's right !.

 

I no longer get chilblains, Now that is GOOD .

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Yenn]

we seem to be needing to reduce electricity consumption or producing electricity by cleaner means.

 

The biggest user of electricity nowadays is air conditioning. Houses are more and more designed by architects and also work buildings and by what I can see is architects know absolutely nothing about conservation of electricity. Houses have to be air conditioned to be liveable it seems, so why do they no longer have eaves or verandahs and why do they have black roofs. I designed and built my house very close to the tropic line and have no air con and electricity use is way down compared to the average. I wasn't allowed to use the very best design to make a house liveable as my wife wanted to be at garden level, rather than in a house up on stilts.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...The biggest user of electricity nowadays is air conditioning. Houses are more and more designed by architects and also work buildings and by what I can see is architects know absolutely nothing about conservation of electricity...

Too plurry right, Yenn! It has long been a source of great irritation to me that most people have never taken the slightest interest in good energy-efficient design, but will mortgage their life to buy the same bland, off-the-shelf house as everyone else. The home I built 34 years ago is comfortable and uses 1/5th the power of nearby, newer houses, but would probably fail the government's building energy efficency code, which is so dumb it barely mentions solar orientation.

 

Proven good design features like those you mention have gone by the wayside, as houses become more reliant on electricity. No wonder power prices are a political football in suburbia. Governments would fall if people can't afford to run air-con in their dark-walled, black-roofed, no verandah houses.

 

 

[facthunter]

The amount of Coal and oil consumed each day is colossal. The stuff marine bulk Carriers consume is 7% SULPHUR. it's basically just crude oil straight out of the ground..Supposed to be illegal to use it closer that 200 miles from port on cruise ships.. sorry folks this one sat for awhile. Nev

 

 

[facthunter]

re the airconditioning . I always said I won't have it till I got solar. and now It costs almost nothing if you use a really efficient one. Ducting loses a lot of the efficiency. I only cool (and heat by the reverse cycle), the main room(s). Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

we seem to be needing to reduce electricity consumption or producing electricity by cleaner means.The biggest user of electricity nowadays is air conditioning. Houses are more and more designed by architects and also work buildings and by what I can see is architects know absolutely nothing about conservation of electricity. Houses have to be air conditioned to be liveable it seems, so why do they no longer have eaves or verandahs and why do they have black roofs. I designed and built my house very close to the tropic line and have no air con and electricity use is way down compared to the average. I wasn't allowed to use the very best design to make a house liveable as my wife wanted to be at garden level, rather than in a house up on stilts.

Obviously not self respecting architects, if they're made to depend on a/c. Proper architects are very keen to reduce energy usage in the built environment.

 

 

[nomadpete]

But they quite often don't.

 

Instead, they rely on a government checklist to achieve a target environmental rating. Such things as adding ceiling fans on the verandah might allow the designer to still achieve a good environmental rating in spite of ignoring some common sense measures that might not suit current fashion trends (eg sensible eaves)

 

A successful architect must first and foremost get the client to like the look of a house, or they go broke.

 

 

[spacesailor]

WHY

 

Why are our AC boxes 240v, needing reticulated power, when they can be made to smaller voltages like the 12v camping A C, as on SOME caravans.

 

IF they made an A C unit to fire-up When the Sun shines, at the solar panel voltage,( without the battery storage,(cooling only )) It could revolutionize the A C market..

 

Then a "fridge", I am dreaming, as it will take money out of the rich mans pocket,

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Bruce]

They are supposed to be working towards an energy rating, but I think the system is too corrupt to do it properly.

 

Our shed-house at the farm has a better energy performance than most new houses, with both foil and thick insulation, with the joints taped. Concrete floor.If I had my time again, I would use double glazing too.

 

This house would probably fail an energy rating while worse ones would pass.

 

It wouldn't be too hard to do a low-voltage dc airconditioner and fridge like space says. I think though that he is over-estimating the market. Most people are too dumb to see the advantages.

 

There were ( maybe still are ) govt contractors in Darwin who visit those who have trouble paying their power bills, to explain things like how leaving your aircond on all day while you are at work is an expensive thing to do.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...There were ( maybe still are ) govt contractors in Darwin who visit those who have trouble paying their power bills, to explain things like how leaving your aircond on all day while you are at work is an expensive thing to do.

Does my head in! So often the behaviour of needy people makes you want to give up trying to help them. Yonks ago I helped Habitat for Humanity build houses for people who couldn't. My arguments to use passive solar alignment and insulation to reduce their running costs were ignored, but the next year they could afford air con. And cigarettes.

 

 

[spacesailor]

"They are supposed to be working towards an energy rating,"

 

L:like the one's on the fridge !: Four star if on very low, cut the Plug off & it;'s five star.

 

Put it on an inverter/solar. and it's Not allowable to get any stars.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Bruce]

Thats crazy space. It should have 10 stars if it runs on solar.

 

 

[facthunter]

solar panels are DC output.. Low voltage systems need thicker wires and lose energy over less distance. Only AC can be put through a transformer to raise or lower the voltage. Your feed in AC current has to match the system's "heartbeat" (50 hertz) and be synchronized with it.. IF you use it yourself and don't connect to the supply you can do what you want with it. with a different type of inverter or just DC direct for say heating by elements (very inefficient but if it would be otherwise wasted why not?) DC might cause more corrosion as you electroplate with DC. DC Motors have brushes and commutators to get torque. More expensive and usually larger than AC motors. Nev

 

 

[spacesailor]

It also should have more stars for efficiency: not for lack of power use.

 

A pess poor fridge might use less power, than a efficient one, keeping food cooler bur at greater power usage. (not by much)

 

Had a Four & half star "fridge-freezer combo" that iced up & had to be dismantled every couple of months. the cold air came from the freezer into the fridge by a ducting, that blocked with ice.

 

One motor served the two parts.

 

Now have separate units, Both 2 1/2 star, which means they're 1 1/4 star combined. (two motors), But no problems, No removing & spoiling all that food from two units !.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[spacesailor]

"and lose energy over less distance"

 

I would think 12 volts on a Long (thin) lead (more distance) has been used for decades to reduce voltage/power to smaller levels, so a 7.5V DRILL CAN BE USED ON A 12 V SYSTEM.

 

Still working after 25-ish years.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[spacesailor]

I have a DC motor generator, doesn't seem very efficient thou, 12 v in with lots of amps, 240 v single plug at the other end.

 

Just managers an old vacume cleaner

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

To bring the discussion back to the title topic...

 

We must be seen to be doing something, or we'll be ostracised like Apartheid South Africa.

 

Neighbours discuss 'global catastrophe' — and some blame Australia

 

 

[Bruce]

Have those island countries ever made any efforts to curb their populations? I remember Prince Phillip, many years ago, while inspecting a new maternity hospital in Tonga making an acid comment along those lines and saying they will be looking for food handouts one day.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

A mythical global catastrophe is being used for political ends. If we listen we will be shelling out “ compensation” for imagined impacts.