EU Members of the European Parliament will be elacted tomorrow (Thur 23rd May )

[Phil Perry]

Brexit Party ( Nigel Farage ) expected to do very well, UKIP possibly second.. . .but we shall see. Much Jollity about Theresa May and her band of thieves too. . .

 

Media : 'Worst Prime Minister in UK History'

 

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[old man emu]

Why do you have elections in Great Britain? Parliamentarians ignore the results.

 

 

[facthunter]

Why would you take the media's word for anything Phil? They don't have much of a track record. The Tories look to be losing out in all this. After all, Cameron was sure they wouldn't vote to leave when he allowed the Vote in the first place. Poor Old England looks like it couldn't run a chook raffle, Mate I wouldn't like to be dealing with some of those EU "Wankers" either but you all knew what they are like. IF you book a trip it's nice to know where you are going and IF you just might get there. A warm feeling in your water is not enough to go on. Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

Couldn't happen to a nicer bloke.

 

'Complete failure': Nigel Farage berates security guard after getting 'milkshaked'

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Nev - you're right - can't trust the media - but the fact is Threresa May has had legislation she has tabled defeated by a record number... and probably had the highest average of defeats.. that rings to me of a not too successful PM. She took a 26 point lead off the coattails of Farage's Brexit win and whittled it away faster than data gets from whatupaustralia's servers to my laptop; and has not achieved one of her stated promises... On the facts, it's a toss up between her and Gordon Brown.. but there's not much in it.

 

I can't say I think too much of Farage or his politics, but Brexit has laid bare that politics from all sides has nothing to do with administering the will of the people but self interest and puppets of big business. Out here, the pro-remainers cry the Brexit campaign rigged the election.. and they made false promises. Someone sayin we *could* spend £350m a week on the NHS instead is not promising anything. They are simply saying what could be done - it's an option. Then they people didn't know what type of Brexit they voted for. Well, yes they did.. I refuse to believe that most people who voted to leave thought, "Oh yeah, I want to be out of the EU but beholden to all the rules and regs and have no say in what they are doing." FFS - the ballot paper was clear.. Do you want in or out.. no conditions... And most people said out.. No Conditions.

 

They they say, "No one voted to be poorer". Well, wrong again. If those same people complain that the Brexit camp broke promises based on what was said in the campaign, the by definition, the remain camp's messages must have to be taken seriously, too. And what was the key message from the remain camp? I quote: "It's all about the economy, stupid!". Well, great campaignng by calling the very people you are trying to convince, stupid. But that aside, the message that it is all about the economy was... beaten! And by that, it must not be all about the economy. And this is the problem wiuth Westminster - to them it is.. Obvously, some people other people have principles.

 

For me, though, it is deeper. It matters not whether one is a remainer or leaver, what matters is democracy. Referendums aren't binding in the UK even if they are legislated to be (Doctrines of Parliamentary Supremacy and being unable to bind future parliaments means they can simply legislate to no longer make a referendum bidning even if it were previously legislated). However, Cameron was unequivocal - the referedum would be honoured either way. May reiterated that it was out deal or not (No deal is better than a bad deal and we will be leaving on March 24, or whatever it is). What this sorry saga shows is that democracy is failing and that is why the western world is in a very dangerous situation.

 

I am philosophically a remainder.. in practice, I had to question it as the EU is not necessarily the glue that holds even the economies together.. yes, it makes it easier for big buisiness and trough-gluggin snouts of pollies; but as has been shown time and time again, it is not exactly the most integrap place. The UK sticks to the rules; they even refused to bail out British steel as it would have amounted to state subsidies which are banned under EU law. In this case, I think it was an excuse because that is a dead horse that has been flogged many times over. But, I was closely invovled with British Energy when they were taken over by EDF and I can tell you, EDF received handsome state subsidies disguides as equity injections (which didn't dilute the existing non-government shareholders for them not putting a Franc or Euro in). But the affront to demicracy that has transpired, where simply the man in Holland Park has more of a vote than the man in Blackpool disgusts me. If I were voting today, I feel so strongly about it, I would have voted Brexit Party. As it transpires there were at least 10 people at work today, reasonably well heeled and all Remain voters who did the same.

 

BTW - I would not say leaving Europe is as bad as people say.. it's the dilly-dallying the government is doing that is costing the country.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

A little bit of balance to the debate.. Pilphered from a UK flyer forum:

 

 

[old man emu]

Isn't gathering money to be used to pay for commitments, of many types, to the EU a form of taxation?

 

Isn't there an ancient sheet of vellum with words written in Latin by pen and bearing the seals of a succession of English kings that says something about getting approval before getting tax money?

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Aw yeah,. . .but. it's only a Billion quid a month . . chickenfeed. . .. . .

 

 

[old man emu]

Poor la Belle France. A little country struggling to feed its poor and downtrodden on a meagre patch of well-worn soil.

 

Bullsh|t

 

Domaine maritime français : 11 millions de km2

 

 

[facthunter]

When the EU (the worlds biggest trade Cartel) started I couldn't understand how having a common currency could possibly work with such diverse governmental policies possible. I'm no economics expert but I was correct . So why couldn't this have been anticipated. at the commencement? Austerity policies By the BANKS involved (and after all they made the loans and are experts so should have taken some of the pain.) The disinformation and self interests of many) brit/UK politicians is not insignificant either.

 

Anyhow it looks like you are feeling some fallout in the economic sense with no light at the end of the tunnel. Of course the UK cut off New Zealand and Australia without a prayer at the beginning and that was a significant blow to many activities here (in the colonies) where some still refer to us as descendants of Felons, and we just had to cop it. you are not the only ones to have suffered but you are calling the shots in both instances. Nev

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Isn't gathering money to be used to pay for commitments, of many types, to the EU a form of taxation?

Yes.. And one of the issues is that there are British citizens working for the EU who are building up EU pension pots - someone has to pay for them... IMHO, the EU should - that;s who they worked for... If I retire to Aus, a small superannuation pot in aus will be nice (about $5/week), but my private UK pension will be paying the lion's sshare (about $10/week).

 

Isn't there an ancient sheet of vellum with words written in Latin by pen and bearing the seals of a succession of English kings that says something about getting approval before getting tax money?

I believe it is at Runnymede (maybe not), where it was signed..The MC has been long repealed... by parliament - this country does not have a constituion (as has just been evidenced).

 

BTW, for your benefit, there are serious questions on the legality of modern parliament - something to do with William of Orange and Scots King George the 1st or something... Can't quite recall..

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

When the EU (the worlds biggest trade Cartel) started I couldn't understand how having a common currency could possibly work with such diverse governmental policies possible. I'm no economics expert but I was correct . So why couldn't this have been anticipated. at the commencement? Austerity policies By the BANKS involved (and after all they made the loans and are experts so should have taken some of the pain.) The disinformation and self interests of many) brit/UK politicians is not insignificant either.Anyhow it looks like you are feeling some fallout in the economic sense with no light at the end of the tunnel. Of course the UK cut off New Zealand and Australia without a prayer at the beginning and that was a significant blow to many activities here (in the colonies) where some still refer to us as descendants of Felons, and we just had to cop it. you are not the only ones to have suffered but you are calling the shots in both instances. Nev

The Euro is nothing more than a way to bolster Germany's export prowess at the cost of the rest if Europe. The DM was values high.. Euro values low.. Allowed Germany to retain access to European resources at rock bottom prices without affecting their standard of living, while making their exports cheaper.. Someone joked Germany tried two world wars by military force - they finally realised they had to win the economics. To William Hague's credit, he swa what was happening and sacrificed a potential premiership for it.

 

With respect to Australia, NZ and Brtiain.. well, as my penultimate partner said (just before dumping me).. "er.. size matters!" ;-)

 

 

[facthunter]

It's the Belgians who come up with the wackiest ideas but are they just firing some else's ammunition or pretending to be important? I may well have voted to leave too but the trouble with that is you are associating with a lot of confused or vested interested people. I like your well considered arguments Jerry. Commerce and business people voted to stay and Scotland may well break away to remain EU. You need shoes with bullet proof uppers .. Nev

 

 

[old man emu]

There's nothing new under the Sun:

 

Adam Smith on the dangers of faction and privilege seeking (1759) - Online Library of Liberty

 

 

[facthunter]

Geez OME . If you keep on thinking, you are going to be lonely. Nev

 

 

[old man emu]

It's not the thinking that'll make me lonely. If I keep surfing the 'Net and posting stuff here, I won't get my work done; the house will fall down around my ears, and the missus will walk out on me.

 

Now hang on while I get some information about the effects of the EEC on Britain's manufacturing economy.

 

 

[facthunter]

Steel works going broke and restaurants closing down. I haven't seen any benefits yet but THEY have no idea where they will end UP. It's a "Magical Mystery Tour" in the real sense.. . Nev

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

This is the 4th time in about 10 or so years, British steel have gone broke. Jamie Oliver can blame Brexit all he likes but the reality is his food was rubbish, service was carp and it was no cheaper than going to fine dining... I went twice; second time was because I thought everyone can have a bad day... no different experience the second time... great pretenders. Also all restaurants and other high street businesses are facing stiff competition by the likes of deliveroo where ghost kitchens on cheap industrial estates bring the same carp at a fraction of the price to your door

 

 

[pmccarthy]

We don’t eat carp in AUSTRALIA.

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Haven’t had a four ‘n twenty pie, then?

 

Though they are still my favourite- first thing I do is go to a servo and get miself one (typo intended)

 

 

[facthunter]

I'm not suggesting Jamie Oliver is blaming Brexit. I'm suggesting it's all part of the scene. What is going well? How will Airbus be affected?How will tourist access to Europe be affected? I've always enjoyed touring Europe though it might be a bit more crowded than what I enjoyed last. It will probably only benefit us a bit as I can't see it hurting us but that's not the point. Russia would welcome it. Not sure that's a plus. Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

Theresa May has said she is leaving as of 7 June. Think what you like of her but she has succeeded in her aims. She was against Brexit from the start and then professed to be betting Britain out, but what she was really doing was stirring the pot. She would not entertain another vote, but what she really wanted was to force the country to vote again.

 

Over many years Ireland has been a thorn in the side of the UK and if it wasn't for Ireland the Brexit would have gone ahead easily.

 

As an ex pom I reckon they should cut Northern Ireland adrift and just drop out of Europe. Of course that cannot be done, but it would make me a lot happier as an ex British serviceman who wasn't too fond of the IRA. I must admit that one of the happiest days of my army time was when I locked up two British officers who were hell bent on proving that we were not prepared for an IRA attack. They arrived in catering corps uniform, with rifles, saying they were posted in to our camp. I have never seen catering corps with rifles and no other troops took rifles from one camp to another on posting. They arrived on a Friday night and I told them to leave the rifles and go get a feed, then popped them in the cells for the whole weekend. I really didn't believe them when they told me they were 2nd leutenants from our HQ. On Monday it all came out and they were working on their own, without senior officers being aware. Two ex officers.

 

The British pollies are much like those officers.