Illegal Immigrants ? ? ? ? ?

[Phil Perry]

News Flash from the English coastal area:

 

 

 

The Royal Navy intercepted three boatloads of people off the coast of Kent today. This placed the Navy in an awkward position, as the boats were not heading to, but away from Kent towards France . Another surprise finding was that they were loaded with British people who were all seniors of pension age. Their claim was that they were trying to get to Calais so as to be able to return to the UK as illegal immigrants and therefore be entitled to far more benefits than they were receiving as legitimate UK pensioners. The Navy, it is believed, gave them food, water and fuel and assisted them on their journey. We are booking the next boat out; let me know if you want to come.

 

 

[winsor68]

Is that funny?

 

 

[facthunter]

More understood IF you live in UK. Everyone else wants to go there for the benefits. (and them make it into a place like they left.). Nev

 

 

[Pilot Pete]

Sounds like the UK is in the same boat as Australia:groan:

 

 

[winsor68]

Yeah. I guess they have had more time to be led up the garden path then us Aussies.

 

What do they call a 457 visa over there?

 

 

[Pilot Pete]

How many people do you see walking around desert garb and they now live in a temperate climate where shorts,thongs and t-shirts are the clotyhing of choice.

 

 

[Pilot Pete]

Illigel imigrants here get the equivalent to the disability pension plus an extra $100 a week for hardship plus internet plus x-boxes plus playstations plus plus plus...........

 

 

[horsefeathers]

Illigel imigrants here get the equivalent to the disability pension plus an extra $100 a week for hardship plus internet plus x-boxes plus playstations plus plus plus...........

 

ahhhh, another NASTY urban myth....

 

• First of all, refugees are not illegal immigrants. It has never been illegal in Australia to arrive on shore without a visa seeking asylum. In fact it’s one of the rights within the UN’s declarations on refugees which Australia helped to write.
   
  

 

 

• When an asylum seeker arrives in Australia, they do not get any Centrelink benefits. While their status is being processed, and if they meet certain criteria, they can be eligible for financial support from the Asylum Seeker Assistance Scheme, administered through the Red Cross. This amount is 89% of the basic Centrelink allowance. This means approximately $405.84 per fortnight – over $260 less than a pensioner.
   
  

 

 

• Once an asylum seeker is recognised as a genuine refugee, after a long and highly scrutinized process, they are given permanent residency and are then entitled to the same Centrelink, schooling and health benefits as anyone else. No more, no less.
   
  

 

 

• The normal Centrelink welfare payment is $456 per fortnight, for a refugee with permanent residency and an Australian-born person. A pensioner in Australia receives $671.90. Over $200 more each fortnight. Even with family/parenting benefits, a refugee’s benefits would still be less than a pensioner’s income.
   
  

 

 

• For an asylum seeker to qualify for any payment under the Asylum Seeker Assistance Scheme, they must have lodged an application for a visa 6 months before, not be in detention, and not get any other payment or benefit.
   
  

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

How many people do you see walking around desert garb and they now live in a temperate climate where shorts,thongs and t-shirts are the clotyhing of choice.

And don't they feel it up here in hot and humid Townsville. !

 

 

[bexrbetter]

I got the joke Phil, and chuckled, it's just a real touchy subject in Oz.

 

 

[Nev25]

ahhhh, another NASTY urban myth....

 

 

• First of all, refugees are not illegal immigrants. It has never been illegal in Australia to arrive on shore without a visa seeking asylum. In fact it’s one of the rights within the UN’s declarations on refugees which Australia helped to write.
   
  

 

 

• When an asylum seeker arrives in Australia, they do not get any Centrelink benefits. While their status is being processed, and if they meet certain criteria, they can be eligible for financial support from the Asylum Seeker Assistance Scheme, administered through the Red Cross. This amount is 89% of the basic Centrelink allowance. This means approximately $405.84 per fortnight – over $260 less than a pensioner.
   
  

 

 

• Once an asylum seeker is recognised as a genuine refugee, after a long and highly scrutinized process, they are given permanent residency and are then entitled to the same Centrelink, schooling and health benefits as anyone else. No more, no less.
   
  

 

 

• The normal Centrelink welfare payment is $456 per fortnight, for a refugee with permanent residency and an Australian-born person. A pensioner in Australia receives $671.90. Over $200 more each fortnight. Even with family/parenting benefits, a refugee’s benefits would still be less than a pensioner’s income.
   
  

 

 

• For an asylum seeker to qualify for any payment under the Asylum Seeker Assistance Scheme, they must have lodged an application for a visa 6 months before, not be in detention, and not get any other payment or benefit.
   
  

 

And we thought you where showing us your intelligents

 

 

[metalman]

You could swap the place names and it would be similar here, what we do have is a small ,but vocal , group who would like to just open our borders to anyone ,,,,,they used to be led by a slowly shrinking mob called the ALP

 

Matty

 

 

[horsefeathers]

The actual "illegal immigrant" debate is so politicised, that no one wants to let the truth get in the way.

 

Is the problem the fact that the "illegals" are wearing "desert garb", or that their numbers are so large as to represent a significant danger to our lifestyle?

 

Or is it perhaps our political leaders (and I do use that term rather cautiously), by focusing on a highly visible group (gee, wonder who used those tactics just prior to the Second World War??) want to simply point score, and lead us by the nose to their point of view by inflaming and distorting facts, simply to win votes, and truth be damned.

 

When you accuse people of wanting to open our borders to anyone, just pull back a bit and look at the actual numbers... The figures may surprise you. Nor should you assume that simply arguing for a truth can be constitued as taking a position on an issue.

 

Where do our migrants come from?

 

• Despite many changes to Australia’s immigration program, the United Kingdom still tops the list of arrivals, with 123,600 arriving in the last 5 years, continuing to represent around 15% of Australia’s migration intake.
   
   
  
• The UK migration alone is almost twice the total humanitarian stream and about ten times the number of asylum seekers arriving by boat.
   
  
• The UK is closely followed by India (114,000) and China (111,000), then it’s a long way back to the next two countries, the Philippines (43,000) and South Africa (41,000).
   
  

 

 

So, shouldnt we be going all ballistic over the huge number of UK arrivals???(and remember, they are as guilty of "taking our jobs" as the next immigrant)

 

I get so annoyed with this debate, when simple reason and thoughtful analysis is automatically assumed to be "evil", or even anti-Australian (whatever the hell that means).

 

Politicians throughout the ages have distorted facts to suit their purposes.

 

Have your opinion by all means, but form it after getting the correct facts, not the nonsense peddled by politicians. Remember, as Samuel Johnson once said, "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel"

 

 

[Pilot Pete]

Okay..... maybe I got illegal imigrants and refugees mixed up(even though they both come to our shores without proper process) . Still why are they allowed to burn buildings and our FLAG and cause all manner of problems and get away with it

 

 

[Pilot Pete]

Why should they get paid at all???? They get free accom and food as it is

 

 

[horsefeathers]

Well, the term "ILLEGAL" immigrants is a term coined by our newly minted Liberal coalition government - ther really is no such thing in legislation when applying it to refugees.

 

And of course, they have NO licence to freely and with no consequence break our laws - no one has that right.

 

Look - if you agree with the premise that they shouldnt be paid, that's fine - Take that up with your local federal member, and become a more participatory member of our democracy.

 

I am not arguing a position for or against - I am trying to show the depths our "leaders" will take us to, and ask people to become informed, before blindly repeating political speak from our masters, or rehashing urban myths.

 

 

[metalman]

Look, I'm not into a lot of bleeding heart crap, some facts ,if I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct me.

 

Is Indonesia at peace, is India at peace, is Bangladesh at peace, is Pakistan at peace? And by peace I mean are they a danger to people who would flee a war zone , so we have people ,with a good amount of coin crossing several countries to enter ours illegally . We have people flying into Indonesia, with all the required documentation , then paying to be dumped on an island knowing , up until recently , they would end up here . If fleeing danger is their focus why go from Indonesia and put them and their kids in terrible danger to come here!

 

I know the numbers of boat arrivals are small, ,and shrinking, but I also feel that coming here by plane and over staying your Visa is wrong, we have ways for people to come here, it happens everyday, hundreds of people immigrate here every year ( thousands really) , and become a part of our lifestyle ,our culture and our values,,,,,,,I've never heard the Vietnamese community wanting to have there legal system forced on us, same for the Italians, Germans, Dutch, South Africans ,South Americans , infact there is only one group I can think of in the last 80 years that has arrived at the shores of other countries and then methodically tried to force their culture and legal system onto the people who let them stay.

 

I know it's just not done to speak the truth in our society, we prefer to be "nice" and treat everyone equally, personally I agree ,I treat everyone the same " if you respect me ,honor my country , be grateful for what we have , be part of the solution not the problem then I'll do the same for you ,I will respect you, I'll be happy to hear your story, I'll give you every chance I can to make a NEW life( as opposed to dragging some evil sh1t in with you) .

 

If being proud of my country is so wrong then I'll be happily branded an "ignorant patriot " then so be it , I love my country, we have our problems , but it's a good place , I see nothing wrong with wanting to protect that, and I'm fine with our government having procedures in place to do that , the previous one was a friggin nightmare of media sluts , criminals and loons, going from all huggy and virtually open borders ( which killed a lot of people, let's not forget that ) to bungled deals all over the South Pacific to farm their self made problems elsewhere.

 

I've seen the numbers,,," we only take a small amount compared to other countries" ,,,,so what! I couldn't care if it was a half a dozen people, if you choose to come here illegally then we have the right to either say NO or check you out to find out what sort of people you are, if your genuine ,WELCOME, if not GOODBYE,

 

Matty

 

 

[Pilot Pete]

My sentiments as well Matty

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Pete I agree with your outrage about the violent and destructive behaviour of a minority of detainees, which is an affront to most peaceful, tax-paying Australians.

 

However we must realise the incredible frustration these people must feel.

 

If I had borrowed all my extended family's savings and blown it on a risky sea voyage (the only option left) then spent months or years behind razor wire with nothing to do except watch all my hopes of a new life melting away…I too might get a bit upset.

 

This is the most vexed issue facing Australia and other rich countries. On the one hand we proudly flaunt our easy-going lifestyle, yet we fear the influx of people who want to share it. We can't have it both ways. We try to be fair and help the desperate, yet we fear that by doing so we could be swamped by the rush. What we see now is only the start, which is presumably why our country is so unwelcoming of the desperate. The tiny trickle of refugees trying to get to Australia is nothing compared to the numbers currently flooding into Europe and other safe havens.

 

But wait- it'll get far, far worse. Wars have been a main driver of asylum seekers, but climate change is starting to have an effect. Australians are among the worst polluters, per capita, of greenhouse gases. The world community will expect us to do more than most to accommodate people displaced by climate change. Two thousand years ago great migrations of people overran the Roman Empire. The numbers of people likely to be displaced by global warming is in the hundreds of millions. We need to get our act together and rapidly change our wasteful ways. A huge investment in renewables could be the stimulus the global economy needs. (Our only other hope is for a series of major volcanic eruptions to inject ash into the upper atmosphere and cause global cooling to counteract human pollution.)

 

Who are we going to believe? The facts as presented so clearly by Horsefeathers, or radio shock jocks, some of whom are proven liars?

 

Three decades ago Australia absorbed heaps of refugees from a country we helped bugger up. That didn't cause us too much pain, but the current situation may be different. We tolerate or even welcome large influxes of people who are like us, but resist other cultures less likely (or with no desire) to integrate into our way of life. This is totally understandable.

 

What should we do? Perhaps a more honest national discussion is overdue.

 

 

[winsor68]

You sully whinging Poms did it to yourselves. Sadly too many seemingly good people in Oz are falling into the same blame the illegals while the invaders storm through the front door not even wiping their feet on the welcome mat layed on by the Pollies.

 

Sad thing is most of you buggers come over here take our jobs and bring your mess with you.

 

 

[horsefeathers]

No metalman,

 

A strongly held opinion does not make you, or others an ignorant patriot, nor was anyone called that.

 

The patriot comment is directed more at the politicians and opinion leaders such as our favourite radio shock jocks, who lie and distort, and claim that any contrary opinion to theirs is unpatriotic. These are the so called patriots....

 

 

[Yenn]

This shouldn't be under the humour banner. It is far too serious.

 

The real cause of all the problems is political correctness. We have countries like Syria, just falling apart and nobody is willing to interveen, so a major refugee crisis. Add to the list half the countries in Africa and several of those in the Middle East.

 

To solve the problem get rid of the UN and replace it with a body that doesn't have a Veto, of course the USA wouldn't like that, it is not their style of democracy.

 

 

[facthunter]

You are right about the veto. It's a complete corruption of the democratic principle of equal voting power. Russia and Chine are complicit too. Nev

 

 

[cscotthendry]

it's just a real touchy subject in Oz.

And it's touchy because the Coalition mercilessly played politics with the issue while in opposition and are now reaping the misinformation, bigotry and hatred that they sowed. They were awful as an opposition; incompetent, dishonest and almost completely inert in government.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

^ Thanks for making the thread funny again Scotty. In summary the Liberals are evil because they made your head explode.... OK they may be a little hopeless in some areas but see to many of us this just makes it all worthwhile!