Illegal Immigrants ? ? ? ? ?

[turboplanner]

Question - did anyone hear talk of selling off Medibank or Australia Post before the election?

Yes they did, it was in the Governor General's speech at the Opening of the 44th Parliament - perhaps not as simply put as you might want, but there nevertheless

 

The Governor General's speech is on Page 17

 

http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/chamber/hansardr/bd34d03c-cbbe-4b65-a047-0a02e9793b9b/toc_pdf/House%20of%20Representatives_2013_11_12_2088_Official.pdf;fileType=application%2Fpdf#search=%22chamber/hansardr/bd34d03c-cbbe-4b65-a047-0a02e9793b9b/0001%22

 

 

[facthunter]

Born and brought up in Newcastle . The Hunter Valley was my oyster. Can't bear to see the place now. Dust on everything. If that's OK by you it is not OK by me.. There are several mines in new Guinea I am familiar with. Are any of them managed properly? Honestly, if it is happening I don't see it. (restoration and limitation of downstream pollution). I've had plenty to do with mines. My grandfather died of silicosis. I come from at least 3 generations of miners.. My ancestors worked coal mines in Northern England around 1850. Nev

 

 

[ahlocks]

Thanks for the debate fellas ,but this has become both boring and pointless , over and outMatty

Just one more boring and pointless thing before you go Matty, "Over and out" is procedurally incorrect.(and now I shall take my leave to go obtain that pineapple that I'm sure you're about to tell me to deposit somewhere...)

 

 

[fly_tornado]

A surplus.

A surplus by selling off Telstra, the airports, the ports, the railways. Once you remove those revenue generating assets its nearly impossible to generate a surplus without higher taxes.

 

Privatisation = higher taxes.

 

 

[kgwilson]

Why do we need 5 levels of Government (well 4 in QLDs case)? State Government is now irrelevant given that the tyranny of distance and time has gone. Cross the border which is just some imaginary line & you are subjected to a raft of different laws just driving your car. Why do we need this so called upper house which can be populated by politically ignorant individuals who like cars & roo poo, & get less than 2000 votes but are there because of a ridiculously flawed preferential voting system.

 

There are many governments that work well with just a local and national system. It not only gets things done but manages everything in a far more timely and efficient manner.

 

All the hoo haa about how robust the economy is & how well we have done is a mystery to country Australians unless they have managed to get a job in the mining industry. We have 1/2 a trillion in debt, an extinct manufacturing industry an unsupported agricultural sector & a declining mining industry. What is going swimmingly well though, is the importation of everything & anything from China & real estate sales in the major cities. We are overpaid for a low level of productivity with the highest real estate costs in major cities in the world.

 

If the mining industry dried up tomorrow we'd be in instant recession. Even with the billions still coming in from this sector the economy only grew by 2.2%. NZ that has few natural resources is forced to look for opportunities where possible & while partly because of high commodity prices, grew its economy by 3.5% in the same period & it only has 2 levels of government.

 

 

[metalman]

Just one more boring and pointless thing before you go Matty, "Over and out" is procedurally incorrect.(and now I shall take my leave to go obtain that pineapple that I'm sure you're about to tell me to deposit somewhere...)

Thanks locks XXXXXOOOOOXXXXX ;)

 

 

[facthunter]

The whole of the New Zealand population equals that of Melbourne, and it is pretty hard to do comparisons. NZ has always been a hard. place to make a buck. Mining profits don't always get to the population of the country that is being mined and generally speaking it is not a large employer of labour after the establishment phase is over. In Australia the big disparity between mining wages and others has created a shortage of labour in some sectors and the FIFO culture has some side effects sociologically that have their costs too. It does create a two stage economy, distorting prices in nearby localities and pushing up the value of the AUD$. Something that is not good for the economy. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

On............................................................

 

 

[Methusala]

Turbo - The GG's speech was made AFTER the people voted, don't you get it...AFTER. I'm wondering when the voters where informed of these plans BEFORE the vote. Regards, Don

 

 

[Methusala]

You've got your timing wrong ...today is the 7th January, 2007.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

the current government is a dissappointment but you have to get on with life, you can't be like these selfish minkie whales

 

 

 

[Methusala]

Before I abandon this circular and possibly never ending thread I'd like to point out that the ALP are not much better than the Lib/Country socialist party. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance and that means keeping your eyes open and your thinking organ engaged critically to everything that is said and comparing this to what is being done. It would be much better if the voters ignored the established political parties and voted for independents. Then we would see a really representative democracy - not the A - B type of choice currently available. See what happens to the Senate when people are not engaged enough to vote down the ticket. Thanx for the talk...I've gotta zip! Regards, Don

 

 

[turboplanner]

Why do we need 5 levels of Government (well 4 in QLDs case)? State Government is now irrelevant given that the tyranny of distance and time has gone. Cross the border which is just some imaginary line & you are subjected to a raft of different laws just driving your car. Why do we need this so called upper house which can be populated by politically ignorant individuals who like cars & roo poo, & get less than 2000 votes but are there because of a ridiculously flawed preferential voting system.

There are many governments that work well with just a local and national system. It not only gets things done but manages everything in a far more timely and efficient manner.

 

All the hoo haa about how robust the economy is & how well we have done is a mystery to country Australians unless they have managed to get a job in the mining industry. We have 1/2 a trillion in debt, an extinct manufacturing industry an unsupported agricultural sector & a declining mining industry. What is going swimmingly well though, is the importation of everything & anything from China & real estate sales in the major cities. We are overpaid for a low level of productivity with the highest real estate costs in major cities in the world.

 

If the mining industry dried up tomorrow we'd be in instant recession. Even with the billions still coming in from this sector the economy only grew by 2.2%. NZ that has few natural resources is forced to look for opportunities where possible & while partly because of high commodity prices, grew its economy by 3.5% in the same period & it only has 2 levels of government.

The Federal Government administers only two territories, the Australian Capital Territory and The Northern Territory, the rest is a commonwealth of six different British countries, all with a Governor, and a Parliamentary Head of State.

 

I wish you luck taking these countries over - the Commonwealth Government hasn't been able to since 1901. For example we desperately needed National Transport laws and the way this was achieved just a few months ago was to get an agreement from the Commonwealth Government and all State Governments that a joint body would be set up - The National Heavy Vehicle Regulator, and this would be the body to come up with new transport laws (sorry to the Gillard/Abbott haters - they don't get a say in it), and those new regulations will be gazetted by the Queensland Government, and all other States, and the Commonwealth Government will mirror the Queensland Acts without separate debate and changes.

 

What you want is what we'd call Vertical integration in companies, where the idea is that you only need one managing director instead of eight, one General Manager, one Finance controller State Managers and so on and the Company will pull together in much more harmony with a lower overhead.

 

What has happened in the larger companies I've dealt with through my professional life is that after about a decade the general opinion is that Head Office wouldn't have a clue what's needed in each State/Zone, they are never seen, and all the local customers have gone to the competitors, so a decision is made to switch to horizontal integration (decentralised management).

 

Then about a decade later it cycles back.

 

The same could be argued for National Government vs State Government, so eliminating one might cause problems elsewhere.

 

If you then bring local government into the mix, on the one hand local councils are by far the most inept and inefficient generally, and I say generally because they are small enough that one smart individual can make one hum.) The electronic age certainly would allow much of the administration to be done in Canberra, but that's the form of government with the greatest need for local knowledge.

 

Is there a problem now?

 

Well I assume everyone has read the Governor-General's speech to the Opening of the 44th Parliament by now, which is just a few posts aboce.

 

She doesn't seem to thing so, when she says:

 

"Today, at the opening of the 44th commonwealth parliament, we celebrate the enduring health of our

 

democracy.

 

"One hundred and twelve years after the first federal election, nearly 14 million Australians have cast

 

their votes in another free and fair election.

 

"For only the fourth time in three decades, the Australian people have voted for a change of

 

government. "

 

Great Britain can't boast a record like that, the United States can's boast a record like that.

 

Before falling for the vitriol of the extremists who spew hate, just remember the we have two of the greatest political Parties in the world who've managed to work together for decades.

 

The Upper Houses came under scrutiny in the 1960's or thereabouts and there was talk of abolishing them, but since then they've proved to be very handy circuit breakers at times and these days usually contain a fair proportion of the Ministry and Shadow Ministry, and conduct many more Inquiries than they used to. They are the most powerful arm of the government, and can call you before them, make you answer questions under oath and deal out serious punishment.

 

I agree with you on the delicate status we are sitting on by living off the mining boom.

 

I see us in much the same position we were at the beginning of the 1890's where many Victorians were living of the gold rush and its associated taxes and business in three story mansions which even today have generally not been equalled, and building obscenely wide boulevards to take a few horses and carriages.

 

It all ended with the end of the gold rush, most half starved, and the mansions were partitioned into multiple flats.

 

 

[turboplanner]

the current government is a dissappointment but you have to get on with life, you can't be like these selfish minkie whales

 

So Greg Hunt has killed the whales?

 

Do you want us to send a couple of FA18's out and fry the ship?

 

And why would we send a ship out there when we have a surveillance satellite in that area which can be tasked to constantly monitor the ship and collect vision of much better quality than you've posted.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Turbo - The GG's speech was made AFTER the people voted, don't you get it...AFTER. I'm wondering when the voters where informed of these plans BEFORE the vote. Regards, Don

That's right, they weren't her Government until they were voted in.

 

Oh silly me I see you think they are required to forsee all the events for the term of government, even before they control finance, and give us a list of what they're going to do.

 

 

[kgwilson]

The whole of the New Zealand population equals that of Melbourne, and it is pretty hard to do comparisons. NZ has always been a hard. place to make a buck. Mining profits don't always get to the population of the country that is being mined and generally speaking it is not a large employer of labour after the establishment phase is over. In Australia the big disparity between mining wages and others has created a shortage of labour in some sectors and the FIFO culture has some side effects sociologically that have their costs too. It does create a two stage economy, distorting prices in nearby localities and pushing up the value of the AUD$. Something that is not good for the economy. Nev

How a country is governed has little to do with population and at 23 million, Australia has about the same population as Mumbai in India.

 

Twiggy Forest, Gina Rinehart & Clive Palmer are testament to where a lot of mining profits end up. Most of the rest goes to foreign owned companies and offshore shareholders. I also lump CSG extraction in with the mining camp & the thousands of wells being drilled west of Myles, Roma etc has been going on since the early 2000s & they still employ a lot of people.

 

Having resided in a number of countries we are over governed with a level of bureaucracy rivalling the highest around. I am Kiwi born, married to an Australian & the form for permanent residency I needed to complete was 30 pages long even though I had been living here for various periods of time since the 1980s, own real estate, but wasn't here when the rules changed in 2001. It's not surprising people want to enter the country illegally as trying to do it the right way is a bureaucratic minefield. My German born neighbour has been here since the 1960s & he couldn't work out how to get his residency so employed an immigration lawyer. $20,000 later he got his residency.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

That's right, they weren't her Government until they were voted in.

Oh silly me I see you think they are required to forsee all the events for the term of government, even before they control finance, and give us a list of what they're going to do.

Please stick to the story and answer the question at hand, Turbs.

 

Methusala posted the Question - did anyone hear talk of selling off Medibank or Australia Post before the election?

 

You said:

 

Yes they did, it was in the Governor General's speech at the Opening of the 44th Parliament

 

Then you said:

 

Oh silly me I see you think they are required to forsee all the events for the term of government, even before they control finance, and give us a list of what they're going to do.

 

You then missed the point of FT's clever minke whales poster and said:

 

So Greg Hunt has killed the whales?

 

Do you want us to send a couple of FA18's out and fry the ship?

 

 

This is all about broken election promises, for which Julia Gillard was vilified by the LNP. Should they be judged by the same standard?

 

Most of your posts are reasoned and undoubtedly based on good research. These were not.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

A lot of silly things are said about mining. If a mining company makes $5M after tax, it has probably spent $100M in the year to do so. That $100M goes into wages and supplies in Australia, and taxes to Australia, so the whole economy benefits. All that money keeps many Australians in jobs, not just those working in the mines. Sure, the profits go as dividends to the shareholders. Who are they? My pension fund and your pension fund. I'll bet many of the posters here are shareholders in those evil foreign mining companies, like BHPB or RioTinto through their super funds. Anyone is allowed to buy shares in mining companies, they can then share the profits. But the profits are minuscule compared with the expenditure that flows into and supports our economy.

 

 

[facthunter]

Much of the mine infrastructure is now imported whereas it was always done here. The mines don't support the construction in local communities of accommodation etc like they once did and they don't do much training of personnel. They also try to automate and reduce the human input. When you do the figures they employment stats are not that good. Tourism would employ much more and is sustainable. This LNP mob don't care about the Barrier Reef or world heritage if it stands in the way of a buck for Gina. Just watch. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

Much of the mine infrastructure is now imported whereas it was always done here. The mines don't support the construction in local communities of accommodation etc like they once did and they don't do much training of personnel. They also try to automate and reduce the human input. When you do the figures they employment stats are not that good. Tourism would employ much more and is sustainable. This LNP mob don't care about the Barrier Reef or world heritage if it stands in the way of a buck for Gina. Just watch. Nev

I watched in Mackay as some of the world's biggest dump trucks were being built, right here in Australia. Up the east coast there are literally square kilometres of industrial areas building infrastructure for the mines. I have personally sold millions of dollars worth of trucks to the mines and that money was spread over many working people here in Australia. I couldn't book motel rooms because motels were permanently block booked. I tried to get a McDonalds and waited ten minutes for a seat which was in the outside area which was twice as big as the normal inside eating area, Roma Airport is probably as big as Essendon was in your day, with hundreds of locally sold light commercial vehicles parked around. There are new roads going in at a rapid pace giving people access to the cities they wouldn't have had for decades. There are Spotless, Supercheap, KMart etc outlets in areas previously only services by high price low volume shops, the transport industry is running four trailer road trains to service demand. One mine owner I spoke to said he paid $17 million in taxes related to his employees, and still couldn't get enough. In terms of training my son spent around $2,500.00 in mine specific training through a local TAFE which previously would have been semi-comatose.

 

And as far as I'm aware Gina doesn't own any mines in the area I'm talking about.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Most of your posts are reasoned and undoubtedly based on good research. These were not.

"The big end of town did not agree with this and wanted lower wages and less tax (on the rich, of course). Notice how politics has gone much quieter now? So now we have a govt of tossers and liars. Not a bad trick I think"

 

This was the sort of rubbish I was responding to - the Prime Minister and Minstry being called tossers and liars. He was luck to get any answers at all.

 

 

[Methusala]

As a point of FACT, I saw Tony Abbott during the election campaign say that if elected he would spend the first week of his prime ministership in the top end with indigenous people. First lie revealed by this scurrelous, low, lying individual who could not keep a civil tongue in his head through the life of the last parliament. Regards, Don

 

 

[winsor68]

I watched in Mackay as some of the world's biggest dump trucks were being built, right here in Australia. Up the east coast there are literally square kilometres of industrial areas building infrastructure for the mines. I have personally sold millions of dollars worth of trucks to the mines and that money was spread over many working people here in Australia. I couldn't book motel rooms because motels were permanently block booked. I tried to get a McDonalds and waited ten minutes for a seat which was in the outside area which was twice as big as the normal inside eating area, Roma Airport is probably as big as Essendon was in your day, with hundreds of locally sold light commercial vehicles parked around. There are new roads going in at a rapid pace giving people access to the cities they wouldn't have had for decades. There are Spotless, Supercheap, KMart etc outlets in areas previously only services by high price low volume shops, the transport industry is running four trailer road trains to service demand. One mine owner I spoke to said he paid $17 million in taxes related to his employees, and still couldn't get enough. In terms of training my son spent around $2,500.00 in mine specific training through a local TAFE which previously would have been semi-comatose.

And as far as I'm aware Gina doesn't own any mines in the area I'm talking about.

Turbs...sorry to say it but this post is almost insulting but I guess you see what your upbringing conditions you to see...

 

What you and so many out of towners profited from was a build stage in the mines out here... currently they are in production... You can blow as many 100 million $$$ signs around as you like but the fact is it is now and over the next 20 years that the real money will be leaving...

 

SADLY...

 

Most of the businesses you mention are deathly quite and laying off staff... except McDonalds and Hungry Jacks... they have plenty of 457 visas to exploit... barely any jobs there for kids now.

 

The suicide toll is horrendous.

 

I kid you not...Production means jobs for the boys and screw you all lets cut corners and save money... the real miners know I am sure.

 

AND YET...

 

For those of us town workers left I find myself reminding people it is actually a good thing for "us Locals" and nobody disagrees... I have seen it all before. Suddenly the local garage wants to service my car at a reasonable price... I can go and get a cheap burger and chips meal from the corner store... Housing is a little more affordable but sadly will probably never fully recover (1500 houses for sale in Mackay right now).

 

How did the mining industry turn out for you and yours Turbs? Sure you made a quick buck but isn't there more to your story? If anyone knows Australian Mining history it was Gina's mongrel Father who changed the face of a once proud industry into a scab on society.

 

 

[kgwilson]

I have personally sold millions of dollars worth of trucks to the mines and that money was spread over many working people here in Australia.

Ah ha now we have a motive for all of those earlier posts. BTW the States were all originally colonies, not countries. I don't think you'd find many Australians who'd consider any State a "Country". The only real thing that keeps the State system alive & well is the self interest of the politicians who would be decimated by its demise.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Ah ha now we have a motive for all of those earlier posts. BTW the States were all originally colonies, not countries. I don't think you'd find many Australians who'd consider any State a "Country". The only real thing that keeps the State system alive & well is the self interest of the politicians who would be decimated by its demise.

Yes, they were Colonies; have a look at their powers now and in the 50 years it took them to agree to a Commonwealth, and yes, my point was we would get rid of States only over the dead bodies of the people who want to retain those independent powers.