Illegal Immigrants ? ? ? ? ?

[fly_tornado]

Under the guise of “initiatives to encourage people to achieve a better standard of living in retirement” Australian Treasurer Peter Costello on February 25 2004 unveiled moves toward lifting the official retirement age and the eventual abolition of all state responsibility for providing for the elderly.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Essential Poll Primary Votes: L/NP 45 (+1) ALP 38 (+1) GRN 8 (+1) PUP 4 (0) < looks like Clive will be the next PM

 

 

[turboplanner]

Costello told ABC-TV’s 7.30 Report on February 26 2004: “I guess my message is ... there is going to be no such thing as full-time retirement. There’s going to be part-time retirement and part-time work”.

I suspect he was referring to the trend where in Australia:

 

(a) our medical system is so much better at preserving life, but costs a bundle to do that

 

(b) people have largely stopped smoking and drinking and also eat better, and that is prolonging life, where previously most pension contributors died before they could claim.

 

Those two things alone have been exponentially increasing the cost burden

 

© families are smaller, reducing the ratio of the 20th century of an increasing mass of young people paying for a decreasing mass of old people.

 

Since the time he spoke, a compromise where people who are now much healthier and can be kept that way by today's medical standards, can work on past 60 and 65 offsetting significantly the paradigm Costello was trying to face up to.

 

Also since then, governments have shifted more burden on to the employee to significantly fund his/her retirement with superannuation, which in the long run is the most effectice way of wealth generation. People let's say over 50 now will not see much benefit of this, since many grew up when superannuation was optional only, but it will eventually kick in and largely replace the pension.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Essential Poll Primary Votes: L/NP 45 (+1) ALP 38 (+1) GRN 8 (+1) PUP 4 (0) < looks like Clive will be the next PM

Proving to us all you can't count.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Costello told ABC-TV’s 7.30 Report on February 26 2004: “I guess my message is ... there is going to be no such thing as full-time retirement. There’s going to be part-time retirement and part-time work”.

I can't see much wrong with that, FT. I sure miss my job. For many of us, work is life. I am involved with our local Rural Heritage Village, run by a bunch of old f*rts. It's amazing what they design and build; they put many younger and "highly qualified" people to shame. There is so much wasted experience and expertise in this country.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Well if you want to rock up with no documents what do they expect……they destroy them

So if you lost your memory and were wandering around without your wallet, you'd be happy to be locked up for years?

 

 

[Marty_d]

Can I just congratulate Phil on starting a post which has gone past 500 posts... bet you never expected that from your joke!!

 

 

[winsor68]

The Pocket Oxford Dictionary give psychopath the meaning most of us would be familiar with: mentally deranged person

 

skeptic36 did not deserve a personal and totally inappropriate attack like this

It wasnt aimed at him personally. I would say it aplies to at least 40% of the population... Or are a whole bunch of people gonn wake up one night with the horrors when it truly sinks that these are flesh a blood people they pass life and death judgement on so readily....?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

just try and find a job, ppl don't want to hire old people

 

 

[turboplanner]

So if you lost your memory and were wandering around without your wallet, you'd be happy to be locked up for years?

You probably wouldn't be too happy.

 

On the other hand if we take out a world map and trace the route from Afghanistan or Iraq, we find India and a lot of other countries stand in the way of Ashmore reef, so for a start you'd be stopped in one of those countries.

 

If you look at the Afghani "refugee's" travel problems, you'll see he has some big problems to overcome just to get to Indonesia, particularly with a family of six, and they'll all need papers.

 

There seems to be a misunderstanding on this thread which is about Illegal Immigrants.

 

A genuine refugee who manages to walk his family to his border and is fed by the UN is regularly accepted by Australia after suitable checks

 

We never read too much about these genuine immigrants in the newspapers because they are just integrating and enjoying their new life.

 

If you look at Afghanistan in particular which has had a clean out of extremists and Taliban, they are hardly likely to suddenly start starving and killing the good citizens who pleaded for help in getting rid of the baddies.

 

So who would the "refugees" be then, who were skilled enough to negotiate their way through several countries, get to Indonesia at who know what cost, stay in accommodation until they could get a leaky old boat, and flop on to Ashmore reef with no papers - are they the goodies?

 

 

[turboplanner]

It wasnt aimed at him personally. I would say it aplies to at least 40% of the population... Or are a whole bunch of people gonn wake up one night with the horrors when it truly sinks that these are flesh a blood people they pass life and death judgement on so readily....?

Really, putting a "psychopath" next to a person's name not personal?

 

And 40% of us are psychopaths?

 

 

[skeptic36]

Really, putting a "psychopath" next to a person's name not personal?

And 40% of us are psychopaths?

Thanks for your concern Turbo, but no need to worry. I'm not

 

I was trying to make sense of what Windsor said in response to my post. I failed.

 

I did go and get the trike out and put another .3hrs on it though. Did you know it is six degrees cooler at 3000 ft.

 

Oh the joys of being a capitalist

 

 

[Marty_d]

You probably wouldn't be too happy.

On the other hand if we take out a world map and trace the route from Afghanistan or Iraq, we find India and a lot of other countries stand in the way of Ashmore reef, so for a start you'd be stopped in one of those countries.

 

If you look at the Afghani "refugee's" travel problems, you'll see he has some big problems to overcome just to get to Indonesia, particularly with a family of six, and they'll all need papers.

 

There seems to be a misunderstanding on this thread which is about Illegal Immigrants.

 

A genuine refugee who manages to walk his family to his border and is fed by the UN is regularly accepted by Australia after suitable checks

 

We never read too much about these genuine immigrants in the newspapers because they are just integrating and enjoying their new life.

 

If you look at Afghanistan in particular which has had a clean out of extremists and Taliban, they are hardly likely to suddenly start starving and killing the good citizens who pleaded for help in getting rid of the baddies.

 

So who would the "refugees" be then, who were skilled enough to negotiate their way through several countries, get to Indonesia at who know what cost, stay in accommodation until they could get a leaky old boat, and flop on to Ashmore reef with no papers - are they the goodies?

Refer to post #457. Would you rather raise your kids in Pakistan/India/Bangladesh/Burma/Thailand/Cambodia/Vietnam/Malaysia/Indonesia/PNG... or here?

 

And if someone is skilled, resourceful, committed and determined enough to get their family all that way, why the hell would we want to turn them away??

 

By the way... if Afghanistan has had a "clean out" of the Taliban, how come interpreters who worked for the coalition forces are being killed now?

 

 

[dazza 38]

Ok my 2 cents worth, I have worked in the middle east previously for a couple of years. This my opinion. A genuine refugee is person who feels that their life and their families life is threatened. They will try to get themselves and their family to the closest country where they are out of danger, they don't have the cash to do anymore than that.. Normally that is a country that borders there own country. North Africa is a classic of this. Then we have people who in my eyes rort the system and travel through multiple safe countries to get their ar$es here. Sorry but they are NOT refugees, they are trying to enter this country illegally known as illegal immigrants. We have a lot of bleeding hearts here that have never worked in some of the countries that I have worked in. Believe me, you don't want their general population living here. They bring there own ideas and don't want to assimilate with our ideals. DO you guys want us to end up like England which is full of foreigners who don't speak English much ? Or the USA where a large portion of the immigrants don't speak a word of English. We already have a lot of Mosques here, but Saudi Arabia were I worked didn't have one Church, why because they were not allowed. We are, as well as most of the western world countries are too soft AND that makes us a soft target. Just sayin

 

 

[M61A1]

Really, putting a "psychopath" next to a person's name not personal?

And 40% of us are psychopaths?

I saw a documentary called "The truth about killing" a few years ago, I can't vouch for the accuracy of their claims, but they suggested that on average there about 2% psychopaths.

 

 

[M61A1]

Ok my 2 cents worth, I have worked in the middle east previously for a couple of years. This my opinion. A genuine refugee is person who feels that their life and their families life is threatened. They will try to get themselves and their family to the closest country where they are out of danger, they don't have the cash to do anymore than that.. Normally that is a country that borders there own country. North Africa is a classic of this. Then we have people who in my eyes rort the system and travel through multiple safe countries to get their ar$es here. Sorry but they are NOT refugees, they are trying to enter this country illegally known as illegal immigrants. We have a lot of bleeding hearts here that have never worked in some of the countries that I have worked in. Believe me, you don't want their general population living here. They bring there own ideas and don't want to assimilate with our ideals. DO you guys want us to end up like England which is full of foreigners who don't speak English much ? Or the USA where a large portion of the immigrants don't speak a word of English. We already have a lot of Mosques here, but Saudi Arabia were I worked didn't have one Church, why because they were not allowed. We are, as well as most of the western world countries are too soft AND that makes us a soft target. Just sayin

Dazza is on the money..............I work with lot of people who have spent many years in the Middle East, you can spout the usual cries of "racist", but I have yet to hear one of them have something positive to say about the sort of people they ad to work with. The bleeding hearts here have no idea what sort of people they are standing up for. We are too soft, and suckers for a sob story, and the illegals know it.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Sad. It's a good thing that the first settlers here assimilated peacefully with the locals and didn't bring their own silly customs with them. Can you imagine how stupid they would have been to wear heavy European clothes in this climate? Or to introduce their own animals like foxes and rabbits, instead of learning from the locals how to hunt kangaroo & wallaby? And if they tried to bring their own culture and religion with them? If they DID do all of that, can you imagine them one day trying to stop people a bit different from themselves?

 

 

[Bikky]

Hmmm...

 

Gay marriage anyone?

 

Aboriginal land rights and welfare?

 

Abortion?

 

Whaling?

 

 

I've been reading his thread with a sardonic smile.

 

Little wonder I moved to Brazil.

 

Sure there's lots of inequality, corruption, poverty, lack of welfare (and consequent crime) etc here.

 

But the majority of people here are happy and positive.

 

C'mon guys! You are too lucky. Go flying!

 

 

 

[M61A1]

Sad. It's a good thing that the first settlers here assimilated peacefully with the locals and didn't bring their own silly customs with them. Can you imagine how stupid they would have been to wear heavy European clothes in this climate? Or to introduce their own animals like foxes and rabbits, instead of learning from the locals how to hunt kangaroo & wallaby? And if they tried to bring their own culture and religion with them? If they DID do all of that, can you imagine them one day trying to stop people a bit different from themselves?

I think that you've proved the point that if you let the undesirables in, they will ruin the place.

 

 

[M61A1]

Hmmm...Gay marriage anyone?

 

Aboriginal land rights and welfare?

 

Abortion?

 

Whaling?

 

 

I've been reading his thread with a sardonic smile.

 

Little wonder I moved to Brazil.

 

Sure there's lots of inequality, corruption, poverty, lack of welfare (and consequent crime) etc here.

 

But the majority of people here are happy and positive.

 

C'mon guys! You are too lucky. Go flying!

 

How is life in Brazil?

 

I can see that things are going down hill in this country and fast. How tight are the flying regs, and what boxes do I need to tick to move there?

 

 

[Bikky]

M61A1

 

Life is great! Basically you can do what you like if you don't hurt anyone else.

 

Want to walk down the street with a cold beer on a hot day, or crack one in the supermarket? Go ahead.

 

There are lots of boxes to tick. I collected my "Identidade de Estrangeiro" yesterday after 2 years. But now I am officially a Brasileiro!

 

Flying regs are more or less the same here. More responsibility is placed on YOU as a person. There is no nanny state here.

 

If you fall in a shop - it's your problem, not the proprietors'!

 

I haven't had much to do with the ultralight side of aviation here but do get the chance to rub shoulders with professional pilots.

 

I teach Cambridge, conversational and aviation English. Little money but very satisfying.

 

If you want to feel truly welcomed, come to Brazil!

 

If you are all bigoted, forget it! An amazing mix of races and colours here. I love it!

 

 

[facthunter]

M61A1, I am sure most aboriginals would agree with you. ( post 519).

 

As a general observation..... In less than 300 years we have a country where you can't drink from any river with out putting chlorine into the water first. We have treated rivers as though we can just dump anything we like into them, and the land has been largely deforested in the forested areas and much of the scarce topsoil wind eroded in inland areas and salinity increased to the point where it threatens many agricultural areas, all across the country.. We have introduced rabbits, lantana, cane toads wild cats and dogs, carp that have wiped out native species. Not particularly well managed is it? Introduced weeds threaten most agricultural areas.. Weed control is a major cost to agriculture and threatens many river systems..I'm not crying doom but these are facts We have done a very poor job and a lot of damage in a short time.

 

We live in concentrations in about five major centres of population in European type cities in a country very unlike Europe, and one of the most arid in terms of precipitation to evaporation rates overall. . Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

Refer to post #457. Would you rather raise your kids in Pakistan/India/Bangladesh/Burma/Thailand/Cambodia/Vietnam/Malaysia/Indonesia/PNG... or here?

And if someone is skilled, resourceful, committed and determined enough to get their family all that way, why the hell would we want to turn them away??

 

By the way... if Afghanistan has had a "clean out" of the Taliban, how come interpreters who worked for the coalition forces are being killed now?

You actually quoted me, but apparently didn't read or didn't comprehend what I said in lines 6 and 7

 

"A genuine refugee who manages to walk his family to his border and is fed by the UN is regularly accepted by Australia after suitable checks

 

We never read too much about these genuine immigrants in the newspapers because they are just integrating and enjoying their new life."

 

 

Here are three sources where you can see the figures for yourself

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/statistics/pdf/report-on-migration-program-2012-13.pdf

 

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/60refugee.htm

 

 

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publications/statistics/immigration-update/australia_offshore_humanitarian_prog_2012-13.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for your last line, what's your point?; Did you want me to say Afghanistan has had a clean out of the Taliban, but some people who may or may not be Taliban, may or may not be killing people who may or may not have been interpreters, and who may or may not have been working for the coalition forces?

 

 

[Methusala]

The question is in 2 parts. Do you let them in?...and - once here, how do we treat them. I know there are a lot of people who can't understand the sort of issues raised in stories such as "Ship of the Damned". How can people be that callous? we ask ourselves and then the self realisation that is how we are treating these unfortunates. Silly, eh?

 

 

[facthunter]

A lot of the hatred has been whipped up by VIEWSpapers some politicians and shockjocks for their own reasons. No-one would like to contemplate un controlled immigration, but we have had waves of immigrants in the past. Greeks Irish Vietnamese, Italians, Chinese over the years etc who are making this country the great place it is. It is a difficult matter to deal with for sure but getting us out of whack with NGO's and the UN and possibly leaving it, would not be a good move for us as a country. We should avoid making pariahs of ourselves on the world stage because we trade and deal with many countries and I can't perfect my KIWI accent well enough to pretend I'm from NZ when I go overseas. Australians have been generally fortunate to be well received in most countries of the world up till now but I feel it is changing. unfortunately. Nev