facthunter Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 It is not going anywhere either. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
503 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 The do gooders will stuff it up for all sooner or later.once there head is stuck in the sand that's it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsor68 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Still very creative TP. The legislation you are quoting is only one part of Australian law. You left our UN convention we are lawful signatories to which applies to entering for the purpose of asylum. You might no like it but that doent change the fact. This appears very deceitful to me. I really cant get my head around why this is a problem for some... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Name calling is no substitute for argument. Once it goes there it is a waste of time. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I don't know why people are uncomfortable calling the concentration camps, concentration camps. They aren't prisons because no one has broken any laws, no one has been charged with any crimes. As a society, they represent the concept of fairness and the fairgo something we no longer aspire to as a nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Still very creative TP. The legislation you are quoting is only one part of Australian law. You left our UN convention we are lawful signatories to which applies to entering for the purpose of asylum. You might no like it but that doent change the fact. This appears very deceitful to me. I really cant get my head around why this is a problem for some... Not creative at all, you were concerned about the definition of illegal immigrants. We've established that what I was saying is backed up by the Migration Act 1958 so that's the end of that. If you want to move on to other things, where you may well be just as out of touch, then feel free to do your own research. I have no idea what you are suggesting that I don't like; it looks to me like you're just trying to squirm out and start another subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methusala Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 M61A1 Please take note:- I think that a good layman's description of a concentration camp would be an enclosure where people are detained, not for breaking a law or awaiting trial, but because of who they are. Concentration camp BECAUSE THE DETAINEES ARE DEPRIVED OF THE RIGHTS OF THE GREATER POPULATION FOR NO GOOD LEGAL REASON. Definition :"The term concentration camp refers to a camp in which people are detained or confined, usually under harsh conditions and without regard to legal norms of arrest and imprisonment that are acceptable in a constitutional democracy." Holocaust Encyclopaedia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 How can they not be concentration camps? People only stay there because they fear going back to where they came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsor68 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Not creative at all, you were concerned about the definition of illegal immigrants. We've established that what I was saying is backed up by the Migration Act 1958 so that's the end of that. If you want to move on to other things, where you may well be just as out of touch, then feel free to do your own research. I have no idea what you are suggesting that I don't like; it looks to me like you're just trying to squirm out and start another subject. Its simple TP...you refer to Asylum seekers as illegal...this is 100% untrue and the legislation you quoted is misleading. Not starting another anything...it's just important this is clarified...there are people who are being misled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I don't know why people are uncomfortable calling the concentration camps, concentration camps. They aren't prisons because no one has broken any laws, no one has been charged with any crimes.As a society, they represent the concept of fairness and the fairgo something we no longer aspire to as a nation. They have tried to enter this country illegally, that is breaking the law IMO regardless of what the UN and the bleeding hearts say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 And you've never broken the law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Its simple TP...you refer to Asylum seekers as illegal...this is 100% untrue and the legislation you quoted is misleading.Not starting another anything...it's just important this is clarified...there are people who are being misled. Its called cherry picking: paragraph here, subsection there. walah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 And you've never broken the law Every god dam day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Its simple TP...you refer to Asylum seekers as illegal...this is 100% untrue and the legislation you quoted is misleading.Not starting another anything...it's just important this is clarified...there are people who are being misled. Once again, have a look at the title of this thread; is says illegal immigrants; you now have the definition directly from the Act. There is nothing misleading about that whatsoever. Seeking Asylum is not illegal, and I previously mentioned what Australia has been doing and provided the statistics for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 These people are free to leave at any time and their transport out will be arranged and supplied free of charge when requested. They are not forced to labour in any way and have plenty of free food, medicines and medical treatment, cigarettes plus the use of phones and generally a limited range of entertainment or basic sporting facilities. All questioning is done on a voluntary basis with no obligation to answer at all. To refer to this as a 'concentration camp' is deliberate deceit and beyond wilful ignorance, any person intelligent enough to breath and speak would grasp the difference. It is also an attempt to belittle and demean those around the world that are or have been in an actual concentration camp; I have known some of these people who have suffered dreadfully and for this reason I despise your pathetic political propaganda and deception. Proverbs 17v10 "A reproof enters more deeply into him that has understanding than a hundred stripes into a fool" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Its called cherry picking: paragraph here, subsection there. walah! Well read the whole act then - the link is there, and while you are about it read the other Acts which relate to the process, then maybe you might make some sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 These people are free to leave at any time and their transport out will be arranged and supplied free of charge when requested. They are not forced to labour in any way and have plenty of free food, medicines and medical treatment, cigarettes plus the use of phones and generally a limited range of entertainment or basic sporting facilities. All questioning is done on a voluntary basis with no obligation to answer at all. To refer to this as a 'concentration camp' is deliberate deceit and beyond wilful ignorance, any person intelligent enough to breath and speak would grasp the difference. It is also an attempt to belittle and demean those around the world that are or have been in an actual concentration camp; I have known some of these people who have suffered dreadfully and for this reason I despise your pathetic political propaganda and deception. Proverbs 17v10 "A reproof enters more deeply into him that has understanding than a hundred stripes into a fool" What is it then, Gnu? What do you call a place where you lock someone behind razor wire and deprive them of their freedom, without a court case, sometimes for years on end? Just because the facilities are better than WWII, doesn't change what it is. As for the scripture quoting, I smell the whiff of hypocrisy that someone who follows a belief system that supposedly supports the less fortunate in life, defends wrongful incarceration and human suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 How childish Someone explains that people in the centres are free to leave and go home. Immediately someone else proves he can't read by saying they are deprived of their freedom. And you do your best to inflame the situation by giving it a "Winner" label How utterly pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsor68 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 What ya trying to say TP? Try no to make it personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 What ya trying to say TP? Try no to make it personal. I think he is saying your button pushing is a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsor68 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Frankly TP that is a bit rude. This situation has been been inflamed by half truths and a strange willingness to support what is in mine and many others eyes barbaric behaviour. And you accuse me of inflaming the situation. It seems the only thing becomimg inflamed is you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 TP your defence of bigotry has been outstanding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planedriver Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 TP your defence of bigotry has been outstanding That may be your personal opinion FT, and living within a democracy you are perfectly entitled to express it, but so much of what both Turbo and the greater majority have expressed, is purely common sense, and displays a caring for the place in which we live. That is, if you genuinely care about the future of this country and wish to preserve it as best as one can, as all countries should strive to do. If you think its a good idea to open the flood gates and let anyone in who thinks this might be a good place to live, instead of mainly posting bits from your comic-cuts, why not balance the argument a bit and also post a few about the quality of life and the problems that are now faced by such countries as France, Holland, USA and the UK etc; where badly thought out immigration policy's have taken place. In hindsight, I think many would wish that they could simply turn back the clock. To do things in moderation and a more caclulated way, may not buy instant votes to get pollies over the line, of which both major parties are guilty, and may upset a few with minority views. I like others, could also bombard this thread if we wished, with a multitude of information relating to political uprisings caused by immigrants who simply choose to live where policys are soft and benevelant and offer precious little in return. Once again, i'll use the term moderation, and fully support lending a helping hand to support those in need, for whatever genuine reason in moderation. The views of just a very small vocal minority on here may be right, but maybe they are wrong?, they should also consider why they are right and everyone else is wrong. I'm very much for Tempory residency to be issued, but tempory should mean exactly that and nothing more, until such times as they can be fully asessed like most migrants have been up until recent times. To rock up on a boat wearing designer clothing, pumped mucles and generally looking like you have been living the good life but just want more, does not really convince me they are opressed, starving and in genuine need. If they are genuine, they should be happy to accept tempory residency even if it was for 10yrs before being accepted for full residency and on the condition that if they don't meet the grade they'll have to return. Those who have patiently waited offshore, and by that I don't mean Christmas Island and the like, and have approched Australia through the proper channels, if they meet the required criteria, preference should be given to them as they have already displayed a willingness to abide by the rules of the country, and thereby most likely to make better citizens and intergrate in the Australian way of life in a law abiding way. Maybe i'm wrong, but you with differing opinions, have to ask yourself the same question, and above all have an open mind and be honest with yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methusala Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 G'day Planedriver, welcome to this thread that has attracted such interest - already in excess of 620 posts. Obviously no lack of enthusiasm here. I would like to give my input to points that you have raised. Firstly I say that nominating yourself as belonging to the majority does not give any moral authority to your beliefs nor can you simply claim a monopoly over common sense. You have to put a little more intellectual effort into making a case. There is NO evidence that people in this debate don't genuinely care about the issues raised in the asylum seeker debate (note this is NOT the "illegal immigrant" debate). Humanity have always been nomadic in nature. This is not a criminal flaw but a sign that being adaptive we have successfully colonised the earth. Additionally I reject the assumption that you make that some of us welcome an open door policy on informal migration, I'm sure that we don't and I reject this implication. In the past well intentioned attempts have been made to form a regional solution with the cooperation of neighbors like Malaysia. These efforts have been dismissed by the LNP gaggle for simple political advantage. (Another example of this extreme game of political musical chairs has been the question of carbon marketing, once embraced by the coalition then dumped for the worst of reasons.) Finally I have to state that it is not simply a case of orderly migration. Many of the worst trouble spots simply have no mechanism where requests can be made to some Australian consulate for permission to come to Oz. This is simply another ruse concocted to make the topic seem cut and dried. Another convenient lie I would call it. There is no simple answer to this problem but me and the others argue that the treatment of those unfortunate men, women and kids who have arrived on our patch should not be abused, neglected and terrified by incarceration in hell holes like a disused quarry in sun baked Nauru (do some reading and check it out). Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 and we are officially on the slipper slope http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/scott-morrison-admits-australia-breached-indonesian-waters-during-boat-operations-20140117-30yi1.html detailed description of the event http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/asylum-seekers-say-they-were-tricked-by-navy-20140116-30xtz.html Giving the people smugglers a brand new life boat is not the answer:oh yeah: How long before this baby is sitting in Darwin harbour? you have to wonder how long before we end up in a My Lai type incident when one of these young sailors sees a weapon:oops: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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