fly_tornado Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 Talk about playing the victim card, if people are calling you a racist and bigot after you express a racist and bigotted view. You are a Racist. Its not rocket science, why can't you put 2 and 2 together? You're obviously not the champion of human rights you think you are. I suggest you take the time to read the definition of treason. Really mate, I've been called everything from a bigot to a racist, a moron who has been tricked into voting a certain way, I've been accused of putting my kids in danger because I have the guts to say if something is wrong, so if .in my opinion, I think someone is verging on traitorous to their own country by taking pleasure in some shitty corrupt Islamic state treating us , as Australians , like we are a bunch of gullible fools, then I will say it without apology,
metalman Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 Talk about playing the victim card, if people are calling you a racist and bigot after you express a racist and bigotted view. You are a Racist. Its not rocket science, why can't you put 2 and 2 together? You're obviously not the champion of human rights you think you are. I suggest you take the time to read the definition of treason. Not playing the victim at all, but when some princess gets all upset cause someone got labelled un Australian it's time for a bit of reality, truth is I couldn't care less what I get called, as long as the the sensitive watermelons can hack it too , and again ,for the less intelligent , Islam is a religion not a race, and if having an opinion about people coming here illegally makes me a bigot then fine, but what am I being bigoted against? People smugglers , corrupt Asian governments, if I get labelled for be "anti " those groups ,I'll live with that, my question is for you ft , you love posting little cartoons, and pithy one liners , how about it, are you quite happy that the previous government made it easy for the illegal operations in Indonesia to prosper? Are you happy with the loss of life cause by the ALP policy ? Is it all honky dory that the Indonesian government treats us like crap? Simple questions , just a yes or no will do, then we can move forward once we know who your allegiance is to!
Methusala Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 I see that the definition of human rights abuse = different things depending on who does it or who actually sees it (If a tree falls in a forest and nobody sees it did it happen?) It is the "ALP supporting a criminal activity" on the part of the labor govt but it is "a minor setback the government has in stopping these bastards", if done by phoney Tony. Yeah right! I get it (not). Definately NOT a princess, Don
metalman Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 I see that the definition of human rights abuse = different things depending on who does it or who actually sees it (If a tree falls in a forest and nobody sees it did it happen?) It is the "ALP supporting a criminal activity" on the part of the labor govt but it is "a minor setback the government has in stopping these bastards", if done by phoney Tony. Yeah right! I get it (not). Definately NOT a princess, Don The ALP by their failed policy allowed an activity that killed people, how is that even close to drifting into Indonesian waters( who cares) , so far I don't see how doing what you said you would do as being phoney, they're still politicians but I can't see how they've been false, unless you like to see them on the telly every five minutes harping about how good they are ( six years of that was plenty)
turboplanner Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 Boats have travelled from Indonesia to Australia for thousand years, only a fool would believe that tony abbott can stop that. So self employed and defacing toilets now are we?
Marty_d Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 How childish Someone explains that people in the centres are free to leave and go home. Immediately someone else proves he can't read by saying they are deprived of their freedom. And you do your best to inflame the situation by giving it a "Winner" label How utterly pathetic. Thanks for those well-thought out and helpful comments TP. It may surprise you to know that not only can I read, I can think too. And thinking tells me that if you give someone a choice of staying behind razor wire, or flying them home penniless to the country they risked everything to escape and where they face possible torture and death, you can pretty much say there is no choice at all and that option can be ignored. For those on the opposite side of this discussion, can I point out the benefits of letting asylum seekers in? Stay with me on this, it does involve putting aside your strongly held views for a minute and being objective. 1) They are committed. Meaning they have left behind their whole life getting here. This isn't a holiday, they've liquidated everything they could and paid a people smuggler to get them here. And if they read/hear/watch the news, which they probably do, they know they're gambling with their life to get here. 2) They are resourceful. If you have ever moved interstate, or to another country, you know the stress involved. Now consider that you probably have to organise it in secret, convert everything you own to currency - again in secret, organise travel across multiple borders and risk your hard-earned on a dodgy people smuggler. 3) They have probably been reasonably successful in their previous country. By this I mean work / business / whatever - because they have the money to pay a people smuggler. What do these three things tell you? Committed, resourceful and able to earn a living. To me it means the following: - They are unlikely to want to live on social welfare forever. Usually people who have had a successful career or business once, are likely to work towards having it again. - They are escaping oppression or danger in the country they've left, so they are likely to have a sense of patriotism to the country that takes them in, because they're gaining freedoms that we take for granted. - As they have probably experienced corrupt and brutal law enforcement in their country of origin, they are likely to be good law-abiding citizens. - Contrary to the doomsayer's views, someone actively escaping a hardline islamic regime is very unlikely to be strapping on the C4 and heading for the nearest playground. So in summary, you want successful people to grow businesses in Australia to improve the economy (because we all know a growing economy is the sole measure of success). So why would you want to keep the people who are most driven to achieve this, out? Now let's hear the venom. Smoke and mirrors again, the only relevance here is that , as a country, we seem to be apologising to a country that has consistently disregarded our borders for years, otherwise , I don't know the operational procedures for battleships nor do I care, this thread is about Indonesia and the ALP supporting a criminal activity and how ,it seems, every minor setback the government has in stopping these bastards from continuing is suddenly a big victory for the so called "human rights" brigade, I wonder how the families of those dead at sea feel about the way they're fleeced, loaded, and dumped by the Indonesian supported people smuggling business only to have the watermelon crew crying about minor details , if the ALP/green circus truly cared about the people rather than scoring political points they would've done more to stop the smugglers rather than create an environment conducive to their trade "Watermelon"? Seriously? What, did your favourite conservative shock jock tell you that one?
fly_tornado Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 Mrabbitt's government is mired by incompetence and laziness. Why would you order the Navy and Customs into Indonesian waters, with sat surveillance its not hard to work out where the ships have been? The navy are starting to sounds like they are sick of playing this game. http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/asylum-seekers-allege-mistreatment-at-hands-of-navy-20140118-311ls.html Fortunately for the true believers, Mrabbitt has a plan and a vision and its a good a plan as you will get out his office http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-coached-to-speak-slowly-speech-expert-claims-20140118-311w9.html Going to be a long 3 years for Tony if he is having to be told to talk slowly
M61A1 Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 2) They are resourceful. If you have ever moved interstate, or to another country, you know the stress involved. Now consider that you probably have to organise it in secret, convert everything you own to currency - again in secret, organise travel across multiple borders and risk your hard-earned on a dodgy people smuggler. 3) They have probably been reasonably successful in their previous country. By this I mean work / business / whatever - because they have the money to pay a people smuggler. What do these three things tell you? Committed, resourceful and able to earn a living. To me it means the following: - They are unlikely to want to live on social welfare forever. Usually people who have had a successful career or business once, are likely to work towards having it again. - They are escaping oppression or danger in the country they've left, so they are likely to have a sense of patriotism to the country that takes them in, because they're gaining freedoms that we take for granted. - As they have probably experienced corrupt and brutal law enforcement in their country of origin, they are likely to be good law-abiding citizens. - Contrary to the doomsayer's views, someone actively escaping a hardline islamic regime is very unlikely to be strapping on the C4 and heading for the nearest playground. So in summary, you want successful people to grow businesses in Australia to improve the economy (because we all know a growing economy is the sole measure of success). So why would you want to keep the people who are most driven to achieve this, out? Now let's hear the venom. Well that's about the most optimistic view I've heard about someone with the perfect attributes to become a brilliant criminal in this country. Resourceful- A good crim has to be. Used to living in danger (talk their way out of anything). Used to dealing with corruption- put that with welfare & see how that goes. Do you have any experience in dealing with the culture in that region?
winsor68 Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 Well that's about the most optimistic view I've heard about someone with the perfect attributes to become a brilliant criminal in this country.Resourceful- A good crim has to be. Used to living in danger (talk their way out of anything). Used to dealing with corruption- put that with welfare & see how that goes. Do you have any experience in dealing with the culture in that region? I have heaps...I work in a public hospital..your mate Johnie Howard stopped providing training for our kids so all the foreign medical staff are now in the jobs your our kids are missing out on. Good work fellas.
fly_tornado Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 My sister's partner works in TAFE, he's fairly high up in the management and tells me of the changes the LNP have brought in, if frightening how much of it has been sold off since the LNP came to power. We are talking about a 1/3 of TAFE campuses have lost something. Most of the faculty are now part of separate entity and have lost a lot of their benefits, these aren't well paid jobs to start with and lots of them are being made redundant.
planedriver Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 My neighbour worked for TAFE for many years. She admits she was payed way in excess of what she was really worth, and certainly a lot more than if she'd been in the private sector, but was happy to accept the money until she eventually retired. Perhaps shedding the jobs of some of these people is a good business decision, but the Rudd/Gillard circus having absolutely no business experience whatsoever in their cabinet, would sadly have been in the dark on anything of that nature, and simply not understand. My mates sister had been employed by Telecom for many years and used to go to the office in the city every day. Due to internal restructuring, she then didn't really have a specific job for almost 2yrs, but used to get people coffees and carry a few papers around and chat to others. (real productive that is) Finally, they gave her the flick, and she came out with severence pay and super to the tune of $271,000. If you are really self employed FT, perhaps she can go on your payrol and do the same. Not saying all those cuts you refer to are the same situation, but it takes someone with a bit of business nouse to clean the system up, because many people like me who worked their butt off, frequently 6 1/2days a week, contributed to their wages.
winsor68 Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 There are plenty of problems in Public Service. It takes integrity to fix it...throwing the baby out with the bath water is dumb.
dazza 38 Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 IRT the Brisbane Times news article The way i see it FT , it is words of the illegal immigrants against the words of members of the Royal Australian Navy. As for the RAN member, posting what he did was probably not the best thing he could have done, but he is entitled to his opinion.
M61A1 Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 I have heaps...I work in a public hospital..your mate Johnie Howard stopped providing training for our kids so all the foreign medical staff are now in the jobs your our kids are missing out on. Good work fellas. Are you saying that you worked in a public hospital in the Middle East, or that because you work with some Middle Eastern doctors you know what things are like for Joe Average in Afghanistan & Saudi? Johnny's not my mate, and never will be. I don't particularly like Abbot, I just hate him less than the Gillard/Rudd circus. My stance on illegal immigrants was as it is when Bob Hawk was in power, and has only been reinforced by experience.
fly_tornado Posted January 19, 2014 Posted January 19, 2014 Is this a meeting of the National Party? Hasn't been called Telecom for over twenty years This government is going from bad to worse. The only success they can claim is dragging unarmed refugees back to Indonesia. Where is our leader anyhow? I haven't heard a peep out of him, is he still on holiday? I guess he wants to lay low till the illegal tow backs are off the front cover.
fly_tornado Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 IRT the Brisbane Times news article The way i see it FT , it is words of the illegal immigrants against the words of members of the Royal Australian Navy. As for the RAN member, posting what he did was probably not the best thing he could have done, but he is entitled to his opinion. The Australian Navy's credibility has been thoroughly destroyed by entering Indonesian waters, of course they are lying, they are just following orders.
turboplanner Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Having some reading blocks again? Those incidents were explained in some detail several days ago, including where the mistakes were made, how they were made, who made them, and what would be done to improve accuracy. You must have missed it.
fly_tornado Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 No one believes the ADF weren't ordered into Indonesian waters. With the truth the first major casualty, you wouldn't want your granddaughters serving on any of those ships would you.
Marty_d Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Well that's about the most optimistic view I've heard about someone with the perfect attributes to become a brilliant criminal in this country.Resourceful- A good crim has to be. Used to living in danger (talk their way out of anything). Used to dealing with corruption- put that with welfare & see how that goes. Do you have any experience in dealing with the culture in that region? Which particular region? Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Syria, Afghanistan....? Short answer is no. Do you?
M61A1 Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Which particular region? Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Syria, Afghanistan....? Short answer is no. Do you? Some from certain areas, some from good friend who spent years in some places. I know that they are not all bad people, but the culture is very different and many things that are acceptable there, are not here, yet largely they refuse to leave those things behind. By coming in through the back door, they have already demonstrated which group they are in.
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