Bloody Israelis. . starving the Palestinians !

[spacesailor]

Octaves post: "I find it hard to understand why you think it is fair to displace people from their homes no matter who lived there a thousand years ago. Would you happily give up your home for the descendant of a previous occupant? I bet you wouldn't

 

In spite of that, I think don't think we can even go back to before 1948, in other words, I accept the continued existence of Israel but not it's expansion or occupation of the west bank etc. these areas were not part of the original deal."

 

It's similar to the to the "Native title land acquisition"

 

"That aspect is how compensation might be assessed when areas of land (or waters) under claim are compulsorily acquired pursuant to state or territory land acquisition legislation. ... Land valuers have raised, broadly, two issues triggered by the native title phenomenon when valuing land"

 

We do it in courts, they do it with bombs.

 

spacesailor

 

1. .au/Land/Acquisition‎
    
    
    
    
   

 

 

[octave]

It's similar to the to the "Native title land acquisition"

 

Really, you are equating native title in Australia to the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza???? That might require more explanation.

 

 

[Yenn]

I cannot see that the Arabs can be anti-Semitic. The definition of semite is those people who spoke semitic languages. That includes Jews and Arabs.

 

A bit hard to condemn Arabs who are anti themselves, that is if you can find any.

 

It is obvious to anyone that the Israeli government has no intention of living peaceably with any Arabs

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I agree, Yenn, except the Israelis are adept at behind the scenes deals with some Arab neighbours; money talks.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

AW, Lighten up a bit people,. . .I'm sure my friend Avi Begin wasn't exaggerating or being biased in any way when he emailed that to me. .. after all he's only a low ranking soldier in the IDF. . .

 

( and, incidentally, I posted the wrong link. He only sent me six pictures and not a world food market catalogue ! )

 

Avi tells me that Israel supplies foodstuffs to the Gaza strip on a daily basis, and all they get in return is Katushka rockets shot back into Israel (at night usually) by the radical Hamas looneys.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...Avi tells me that Israel supplies foodstuffs to the Gaza strip on a daily basis...

We're also told that Israel has an iron blockade to prevent aid getting into Gaza. Her Navy has been quite violent to foreigners trying to breach that blockade.

 

...and all they get in return is Katushka rockets shot back into Israel (at night usually) by the radical Hamas looneys.

Phil this comment might also have been made by a young soldier of the Wermacht about the nasty French who, even though they'd signed an armistice and had been allowed to retain their own government and police force, were still carrying out terrorist acts against peaceful young German soldiers who were trying to bring them into the new modern world.

 

Today those terrorists are remembered as Heroes of The Resistance.

 

If you had been raised in the squalid concentration camp that is Gaza and seen your grandparents and parents regularly humiliated by soldiers of an occupying army, perhaps you might be tempted to vent a bit of frustration...

 

Hamas is still seen there as their only salvation. Desperate mothers have even told western journalists that theIr future looks so bleak that they hope at least one of their children can become a suicide bomber, so they'll be revered (and Hamas will grant the family a pension).

 

 

[Phil Perry]

We're also told that Israel has an iron blockade to prevent aid getting into Gaza. Her Navy has been quite violent to foreigners trying to breach that blockade.

 

Phil this comment might also have been made by a young soldier of the Wermacht about the nasty French who, even though they'd signed an armistice and had been allowed to retain their own government and police force, were still carrying out terrorist acts against peaceful young German soldiers who were trying to bring them into the new modern world.

 

Today those terrorists are remembered as Heroes of The Resistance.

 

If you had been raised in the squalid concentration camp that is Gaza and seen your grandparents and parents regularly humiliated by soldiers of an occupying army, perhaps you might be tempted to vent a bit of frustration...

 

Hamas is still seen there as their only salvation. Desperate mothers have even told western journalists that theIr future looks so bleak that they hope at least one of their children can become a suicide bomber, so they'll be revered (and Hamas will grant the family a pension).

I've been to Israel six times, and into Gaza four times and I believe that your intelligence is faulty. People on the ground in Gaza are terrified of upsetting Hamas, as if they do they get shot dead. Hamas use children and Palestinian adults as human shields when attacking Israeli border fences. . these people have no morals at all. . .tjen the crow to the world medi when a kld gets accidently killed by a border guard . . . Fecking Barbric a$$holes.

 

Hamas are fecking terrorists and you perhaps you shouldn't believe everything that world media tells you. I'm not a shill for the Israelis, but I DO believe the evidence of my own eyes and ears mate.

 

This mess is a historical shemozzle and I don't know what the solution is, but I DO know that ever since Yasser Arafat refused any deal or compromise that the Israelis offered that the situation has gone from bad to much worse. This was the main reason for the wall being built. Hamas wants the total destruction of Israel. . .How do YOU think that they ought to react ? Just roll over and accept defeat ? Would you, if the next state to you kept firing rockets over the border every day and killing your citizens ? Over my visits, I have seen the death and destruction caused by terrorist rockets fired into Israel, and the last time we were there ( 2015 ) Two police officers were stabbed to death, one in the same road as our hotel. . A primary school was hit by a rocket and three kids and a teacher were killed.

 

When you have actually Been there,. . and seen things without the Oh so politically correct World Media Filter, then perhaps you'll understand. And if not, well we shall have to simply agree to differ.

 

If you have a better argument, then tell me and I promise that I'll pass it on to the Mossad.

 

Oh. .sorry, I should have added,

 

No offence intended,. . we're all Mates here. :-)

 

 

[octave]

How do YOU think that they ought to react ?

 

How would you react if someone took your house?

 

These issues are complicated. If you believe one side is good and one side is evil then I think you are incorrect.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Sorry OK, I omitted to mention that Gaza has an open border with Egypt. and goods travel freely through that into the Gaza Strip. Israel has no control

 

of over that ( Where do you think the Katushka Rockets come from ? ) Much foodstuffs come in through that gate, ( and half of my mate Avi's pics come from the food market there ) and Israel opens it's border for food aid to enter Gaza daily,. .. they only close it if there is a blitz of missiles emanating from Gaza, which then prevents workers From Gaza getting to their jobs inside Israel. . .( Thousands of them ) . . .so Hamas is cutting it's own throat by denying it's local workers from a living. . but HEY, what the hell,. .Israel is the enemy. . .? Yeah,. . right. . . .

 

Israel blocks any Sea routes as most of it has been proved to be armaments imported from Iran etc,. . who also don't like the Israelis much.. . can't fault the there, Iran is another sponsor of anti-democratic freedom of course. . . . .

 

 

[Phil Perry]

How would you react if someone took your house?

These issues are complicated. If you believe one side is good and one side is evil then I think you are incorrect.

 

And I vehemently disagree with you having been there Multliple times and seen the opposite story. One well documented sob story video, no matter how well edited does not change the facts on the ground octave,. . and I am surprised and disappointed that an outwardly intelligent man would believe that to be the case. . . The World Media is Filled with cases like the one you highlight, to feed their narrative, and yet rarely venture into the fray to back up nor Fact Check their stories nor tell things the way that they actually are.on a day to day basis ON SITE..

 

Most of what I have actually seen in Israel and Gaza on the ground over the last seven years, bears no relation to what you have posted. You are believing #Fake news,. . the thing you say that you hate. Just like the Fake news in Syria manufactured by the White Helmets moviemaking and proven terrorist group.

 

Get real or don't bother mate.

 

( No offence intended )

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Very interesting discussion, Phil. I value hearing from people who've been there. You've been fortunate to visit these places; we must rely on professional journalists to form our impressions. Despite what you say, at least some of them risk life and limb to actually get in to report what's happening; some have paid the ultimate price for this, and our mates the USA has been complicit in killing journalists. (We wouldn't have known about this but for the likes of Julian Assange...)

 

On your trips into Gaza were you escorted? If so, by whom? Did you see and speak to a fair sample of the population? (The Czar also toured some of the "poor" areas of Russia and came back with stories of prosperous and happy peasants, even though many were starving.)

 

 

[Phil Perry]

M Wife and I were shown around,. . not 'Escorted' by the cousin of a man that I knew from the UK. we were allowed to talk to anyone, via him translating of course, and at no time did we feel uncomfortable nor threatened. We were told bout the threat from Hamas only after we entered the home of my friend,'s relatives, and they made sure that no one wa listening,. . we could almost taste the tension in the room when fairly innocent ( I thought ) questions were asked ( By Me ) about the Hamas local Government. It was evident that they were in fear of saying the wrong thing. .

 

They intimated that there were Palestinians who would grass you up to Hamas for money if you spoke the wrong way. . It was bloody terrible really.. . These folks were terrified of the ruling spastic a$$holes. And this is the way that it is in the Gaza strip.. . .Rule by total fear.

 

 

[octave]

And I vehemently disagree with you having been there Multliple times and seen the opposite story. One well documented sob story video, no matter how well edited does not change the facts on the ground octave,. . and I am surprised and disappointed that an outwardly intelligent man would believe that to be the case. . . The World Media is Filled with cases like the one you highlight, to feed their narrative, and yet rarely venture into the fray to back up nor Fact Check their stories nor tell things the way that they actually are.on a day to day basis ON SITE..

Most of what I have actually seen in Israel and Gaza on the ground over the last seven years, bears no relation to what you have posted. You are believing #Fake news,. . the thing you say that you hate. Just like the Fake news in Syria manufactured by the White Helmets moviemaking and proven terrorist group.

 

Get real or don't bother mate.

 

( No offence intended )

 

Phil, I will answer this later in detail. For the moment can I just say that no I am not offended although what you have said is certainly a personal attack. I am always very careful to debate ideas and not the people who hold those views.

 

I think the most strident thing I have said is that "however the state of Israel was created there is now fault on both sides". I assuming you feel this is false and that the fault is only on the Palestinian side.

 

Get real or don't bother mate.

Phil if you feel my postings are substandard, lack balance or are poorly researched then please feel free to put me on "ignore" This option is available to anyone on this forum.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Phil I cannot take issue with what you experienced there, but you attacked the picture painted by multiple doco makers, who have also spent time there. I'm sure most Palestinians want a peaceful life, but there is a massive backlog of frustration and hate for Hamas to tap into.

 

If anything I have posted on this issue isn't true, then please explain how.

 

Better minds than you or I have failed to solve the Palestine-Israel issue. Building a wall won't do it, nor will shooting stone- throwing kids.

 

 

[willedoo]

Where do you think the Katushka Rockets come from ?

Grammar police here, Phil. You have 1K2 many. Katusha, diminutive of Ekatarina/Yekatarina, same as Katya, Arina, Karina etc.. Goes off with a bang.