Israel Folau - latest example of how to fleece the gullible

[Marty_d]

A man with a large property portfolio, around $6m of net worth, ex-Rugby league player with high public profile meaning he can get a well-paid job (if he wants one) in pretty much any industry.

 

However he went and breached the terms and conditions of his contract, unsurprisingly got the boot, and wants to sue to get his old job back.

 

You'd think that a man with $6 million, seeing that a court case might cost him $3 million, would weigh his odds and if he still decided to have a crack, would be comforted by the thought that he'd still have $3 million afterwards, which is about $2.5 - 2.99 million more than 90% of the population.

 

But no. He's gone the route of L.Ron Hubbard, Billy Graham and the countless other people who use religion to make money from people thousands of times poorer than themselves. First he tried to use GoFundMe, but when they rightly pulled his plug, his good mates at the Australian Christian Lobby stepped in with $100,000 and an appeal for donations which as of 3 hours ago had topped $1 million.

 

To any of these idiots that gave their hard-earned to a man far richer than themselves, can I ask the question - if you really think you're a christian, is that the best use of your money? How about Australian kids needing specialised medical treatment? How about African kids needing ANY medical treatment? How about homeless people needing housing that doesn't cost $400 a week in rent? How about animals on the brink of extinction, schools, medical research, sanitation, bushfire / flood / cyclone / earthquake / tsunami victims around the world, overcrowded refugee camps, or any one of another million causes - all orders of magnitude greater in worth than an already rich man miffed that he was canned for breaking the rules?

 

This is not about religious freedom. He posted hate speech, pure and simple. It's not political correctness or whatever else the crazies on the religious right want to call it. And to those who say "but it's in the bible", well I say the bible is full of all sorts of nonsensical sh*t that doesn't pass the sniff test. I don't see anyone out there posting that they should be able to own slaves, or have multiple wives, or the right to kill witches, but that's all in the bible.

 

As an atheist I'm mildly amused that Folau thinks I'm going to an imaginary place because I don't believe in its existence. But for a teenager struggling with his sexuality and looking up to his rugby hero, then seeing him post that kind of repulsive sh*t, it'd be far more serious.

 

What a joke.

 

 

[old man emu]

Let's go have a look what Laws the God of the Isrealites made for them:

 

Ten Commandments: King James Version

 

God's Law, the Ten Commandments, is expressed in Exodus 20:2-17 (KJV) with the following:

 

“I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

 

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

 

2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

 

3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

 

4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

 

5. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

 

6. Thou shalt not kill.

 

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

 

8. Thou shalt not steal.

 

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

 

10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor’s."

 

The only law that directly related to sexual relations is No.7. Any other law that a society makes is a Law of Man, which, if God is supreme, then the Laws of Man are inferior.

 

Later, the Son of God warned

 

Matthew 7:1-3 King James Version (KJV)

 

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

 

So, in the colloquial sense, Christ said, Watch out for Karma. It'll come back and bite you in the rrs

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Hmmmm - Are you sure? 10th commandment says thy can’t covet thy neighbour’s... ass, seems pretty clear to me!

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Izzy Foul-loo

 

 

[Cosmick]

Don't they play Rugby on Sundays

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Religious texts seem to be deliberately vague and contradicting.

 

Ideal for confusing the gullible and empowering the exploiter.

 

And another thing: how come an all-powerful GOD needs mere humans to smite all those who offend him?

 

If he exists and is so omniscient, why can't he do his own smiting?

 

 

[Jerry_Atrick]

Why should he do the dirty work?

 

 

[facthunter]

He appears to have all the failings of humans. Vain, jealous, needs praise to keep him on side. If you don't shape up you get tortured for eternity. This proves Man created god in his own image because he didn't have the imagination to do much else and needs some thing to put the frighteners up kids etc. This God thing is a bit of a sheltered workshop if you are in the know. No tax etc.and lots of gov't funding. Heaven on earth and beyond and the others go to hell. Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

Don't they play Rugby on Sundays

Yes, and I'm sure there's some other rule in there somewhere about not touching the skin of an animal on Sundays (or something like that). So he's fine breaking the rules when it suits him.

 

 

[Yenn]

Those ten commandments say to me that the God is rather insecure, maybe has an inferiority complex.

 

As far as Israel Folau is concerned the question is, did he breach his contract? That of course is what he wants money for. He should know wether or not he has breached it and the fact that he wants others to fund a court case makes it look as if he cannot prove he didn't.

 

Apart from the legal side of the argument, the whole thing is farcical, If you believe what Christianity preaches, you will no doubt agree with Israel, but if you don't believe, then you think he is talking bull****.

 

I really cannot see that anyone can be really worried by what he says, any more than I believe religiouns should be able to say anything they like without being held accountable, here I am thinking of all religiouns.

 

We are heading into more political correctness with this. It seems to be getting to the point where to criticise those who practice different styles of swxuality is completely off limits. I still reckon gay marriage is stupid and I wonder why we have to be mindfull of the feelings of all the alphabet of sexuality we keep hearing about. I don't even know what the current version is nor do I know what some of the letters stand for. For example is Q?

 

 

[Marty_d]

Queer.

 

As for gay marriage, gay people should have a right to be unhappy too.

 

It seems to be getting to the point where to criticise those who practice different styles of swxuality is completely off limits.

That's an interesting point. Why do you WANT to criticise them?

 

 

[Marty_d]

See, here's the point. You can criticise / judge / hate people's actions and choices.

 

Drink driving is a choice. Religion or lack of it is a choice. Hurting or killing people is a choice. Which football team you follow, which political party you vote for, which plane you fly. All these are choices.

 

What you shouldn't do is criticise, judge, or hate people for what they are - ie for something about them that isn't a choice.

 

Which gender they feel they are, and which gender they're sexually attracted to, is not a choice. The colour of their skin is not a choice. The country they were born in is not a choice.

 

So Folau is well within his rights to say that, in his narrow opinion, atheists and fornicators are going to hell. Those are choices people make and everyone can validly express their opinion about them.

 

But when he says that gay or transgender people are going to hell, he's not exercising free speech, he's using hate speech. Rugby Australia knew that, GoFundMe knew that, the only people who can't get it through their thick heads are the radical religious and far-right conservatives.

 

I'm pretty sure that if someone told Folau that black people are going to hell, he wouldn't be too impressed with that. But he's done exactly the same thing.

 

 

[octave]

Those ten commandments say to me that the God is rather insecure, maybe has an inferiority complex.As far as Israel Folau is concerned the question is, did he breach his contract? That of course is what he wants money for. He should know wether or not he has breached it and the fact that he wants others to fund a court case makes it look as if he cannot prove he didn't.

 

Apart from the legal side of the argument, the whole thing is farcical, If you believe what Christianity preaches, you will no doubt agree with Israel, but if you don't believe, then you think he is talking bull****.

 

I really cannot see that anyone can be really worried by what he says, any more than I believe religiouns should be able to say anything they like without being held accountable, here I am thinking of all religiouns.

 

We are heading into more political correctness with this. It seems to be getting to the point where to criticise those who practice different styles of swxuality is completely off limits. I still reckon gay marriage is stupid and I wonder why we have to be mindfull of the feelings of all the alphabet of sexuality we keep hearing about. I don't even know what the current version is nor do I know what some of the letters stand for. For example is Q?

 

Freedom of speech allows you to say pretty much whatever you want but does not imply the right for that speech to go uncriticized or does not necessarily protect you from the consequences of that speech. This guy said his piece and his employer chose to enforce their contract. This is not unusual. I spent 12 years in the military and it was made quite clear to me that I was subject to 2 laws civil and military. The rest of my working life has been as a musician and music teacher. In this role, I have to be conscious that my public statements must be measured. As an atheist, I could quite easily say to one of my younger students who are religious that I regard their beliefs as being foolish. I wouldn't do this because I understand the terms of my employment but more importantly, I do not wish to hurt anyone's feelings simply because they have a different world view to me.

 

In terms of gay marriage, I just don't understand why it is such an issue. I have many friends who are married or otherwise paired but I don't really feel it is any of my business to publicly critique other peoples relationship. Not only do I not feel it is my place but I actually feel like to do so is unsophisticated shows a lack of experience with different members of our society. My sister is 60 years old and has been in a same-sex relationship for many years. Although I don't think she intends to get married I would not regard it as "stupid" When you say "why we have to be mindful of the feelings" I would argue you are pretty much legally free to say almost anything however this does mean you can't be criticized. I don't think you do have to be mindful of others feelings in a legal sense but in an ethical sense why would you want to hurt someone's feelings?

 

If this guy is to be protected by his religion would this apply to all religions? This guy will no doubt have his day in court and it will be determined whether the contract was breached or not.

 

 

[facthunter]

He knew what he was signing.. Plenty of Christians and Jews don't agree with Israel Folau .The Australia Christian Lobby certainly doesn't speak for all Christians. and should not pretend to.. Church and state are separate or meant to be, here..There's been enough rotten stuff on this matter through the Partiament in the last 6 years. including putting it to a plebiscite even at great expense and a disgusting diatribe from some on God's view. When does this stop? I've seen gays pilloried and bullied most of my life and it's not a reasonable way to treat such people in a civilized society. Nev

 

 

[robinsm]

so the upshot is, the people donating to him are funding a 3 million payday for him. I bet he doesnt give the money from the case to anyone else. There are still some gullible idiots out there

 

 

[Marty_d]

so the upshot is, the people donating to him are funding a 3 million payday for him. I bet he doesnt give the money from the case to anyone else. There are still some gullible idiots out there

Ah, but does it go to him? The ACL have put up the website and I bet the money is going to them. They'll then pay his legal fees and whatever's left, however much it is, they've said they will "donate to causes that exactly meet the donor's original intention".

 

In other words, they'll use this as a slush fund to push for bigotry and protection for religions that contradict current Fair Work standards.

 

Not a bad payoff for the original $100k outlay by them, and yet another cynical money grab to push their twisted worldview.

 

 

[Yenn]

What has bigotry and protection of religions have to do with a court case to decide if Isreal Folau broke his contract?

 

I do not agree with what he posted, but my reason is because I think that anyone who believes in Hell must be a loose thinker. I do agree that he should be entitled to be treated according to his contract and not having seen the wording of the contract I cannot judge him. Those people who do fund him are entitled to do what they like with their money..

 

 

[facthunter]

Yes they are free to give him money and we are free to comment on it, including criticism. He is prepared to give fellow human beings HELL and in circumstances where he signed up to specifically NOT do it, as a condition of being part of the show.. He will then take the "Association" to court when they apply the rules HE agreed to and may perhaps go broke responding to his actions in Court. as It will cost plenty and not help the TEAM he was playing for. or the entire League. He can believe what HE likes to believe. No one is hoping to change his mind on those matters or can. He is free to believe what he believes. . For a lot of people Homosexuality is not something they just decide they are going to be. It's how you ARE. ALL of the other "sins" are by choice . Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

Isn't the pending court case to decide if he broke the rules he agreed to. I do not know what his contract said, maybe others here do. Anyway it will be interesting and I don't care who wins or loses as my opinion is that sportsmen get far too much attention from the media in relation to their use to the populace. At least Israel does seem to be able to speak intelligently, which is more than I can say for some footballers.

 

 

[gareth lacey]

Why is it they call sportstars"heroes"they are highly paid for what they do and a few are egotists they certainly are not heroes Israel has apparently brojen his contract if he loses the case thats it nothing to see here move on as for his religious views he should keep them to himself i think all religeons are petty childish and are for people who need a crutch

 

 

[Marty_d]

Ok, this is probably the last time I say this, but news.com.au published an opinion piece that makes sense.

 

Sam Clench: Israel Folau is spreading hate and calling it love

 

 

[old man emu]

I was taught that even the worst of sinners can turn to God and God will accept them with open arms.

 

Luke 15:7

 

I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

 

I wonder how Folau would take it if he was constantly referred to as a "coconut" of a FOB?

 

 

[Bruce]

It's going to be interesting. Personally, I would say that freedom of religion does not include the freedom to attack others who are of a different persuasion.

 

The world sees plenty of that already. One of the worst true horror videos I have ever seen was an Islamic court throwing accused homosexuals off a roof after they were found guilty. I wished I had superpowers and could fly over and throw the judges and guards off the roof.

 

 

[facthunter]

It's not that long ago that it was illegal here. .All states changed at different times. I'm sure there's still plenty now who wish to take us back to those times and forcibly subject them to electric shocks or get bashed up after footy practice on the way home just for fun. Nev.

 

 

[Yenn]

Reading what Sam Clench said I wonder how the religious books and preachers can get away with their outpourings. It was words from the Bible that caused all this furore, but nobody seems to be saying that the bible should be banned, just that Israel Folau should not quote it.

 

 

[Bruce]

In China, you have to buy the bible at porn shops. Smart people, those Chinese.

 

Now try quoting from other books from the porn shop and see what happens.

 

And, returning to the bible, Folau is very selective about what he quotes. Naughty children have to be stoned according to a bit of the bible he chooses not to quote.